ATN NYC B&M Players IMPORTANT

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually you can let things "Cool off", in the city they tend to do this crap in groups, the last big "sweep" resulted in the closing of the mayfair, diamond club, and the change of venue for playstation. Evetually they'll fade back out of the spotlight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not positive it will this time... it might fade away, and it might not. Poker is in the public eye for the first time ever, and even though many think there is nothing wrong with what we do it is still an illegal activity in the State of NY. What we just saw may be the first step in a series of sweeps, but then again it may not be. We may not see another sweep until the next Super Bowl, or we may begin to systematically see each room shut down or harrassed one by one.

This reminds me of the nightclub crackdown that took place during the Guliani administration, and has surprisingly continued (at a lesser force however). At the time I worked in the nightlife industry. We all thought it was over when the first nightclub sweep took place and there was not another problem for months.... but the administration did not forget about nightlife. The police came back with a multi-unit task force to each and every major venue in NYC multiple times during the year. The Fire, Health, Police, Sanitation, and 5 other departments would decend on a venue at the same time delivering a barage of tickets and violations to the owners of the nightclubs which the administration wanted gone. Since they could not legistlate the closure of these clubs, they harrased the clubs into closing. The Limelight, The Tunnel, Sound Factory, the list goes on.

What I am saying is that we cannot trust past experiance, this may be the first step in a new wave of crackdowns. I personally will be waiting more than a month before I return to the bigger clubs.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[Evan]

Why did they "crack down" on a legal business?

[afish]

Yeah. It is threads like this that provoked the response. Once these sites started advertising, and players started posting trip reports from them, a shut down was inevitable. I never played in these places, so it is no skin off my back. But people should understand that these places are closer to Tony Soprano's "executive game" than they are to the Taj.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did they "crack down" on a legal business?

[/ QUOTE ]

They were under pressure from the community board, the press, and it was part of Mayor Gulliani's public nusance mission. He belived that all nightclubs should be shut down because drug use was taking place. Well... drug use takes place all over NYC, not just nightclubs. After that strategy failed (see the Peter Gatien trials, and his eventual aquittal) and since he could not legistlativly shut down the businesses he deemed a public nusance, he instead had his administration ticket them to death. Many ended up loosing their liquor lisence, a few lost their caberet lisence. I survived, but it was enough to make me want to leave the business for good.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

[ QUOTE ]
You really don't get it. You can't let things "cool off" for a couple weeks. What does that even mean? These places are illegal, and they publicized themselves to such an extent that the NYPD felt they had to take action. This is the Mayfair Club and Diamond Club all over again. Diamond tried to reopen, and I think there were further arrests.

I've never been in any of these places, and if I were a poker player who didn't want a rap sheet, I'd stay away.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who doesn't get it?

You don't get a "rap sheet" for a "violation" -- that is no more than a parking ticket. A violation is less than a misdemeanor. As I understand it, players were only charged with loitering -- a violation under New York law. Only those running (or working for) the club can be charged with a crime.

Also, loitering laws in many jurisdiction have been found unconstitutional. I don't know if NY's law has been tested. There is a good chance these tickets will be thrown out -- the real risk is to your bankroll on the table... you may only have a worthless stack of pretty red and green (and, if you're lucky, black) chips.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Actually you can let things "Cool off", in the city they tend to do this crap in groups, the last big "sweep" resulted in the closing of the mayfair, diamond club, and the change of venue for playstation. Evetually they'll fade back out of the spotlight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not positive it will this time... it might fade away, and it might not.

[/ QUOTE ]

And that is the reason to be cautious if you work or run one of these places... This may or may notd have been a part of the usual Super Bowl Sunday gambling sweep -- usually limited to bookies and sports betting. If it is the annual sweep, it will fade away... no way to know for sure.

Funny thing is -- there appear to be three or four different rooms poised to open in the next few weeks... at least thats what I gather from the various message boards.

C

[spadeclub99]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, loitering laws in many jurisdiction have been found unconstitutional. I don't know if NY's law has been tested. There is a good chance these tickets will be thrown out -- the real risk is to your bankroll on the table... you may only have a worthless stack of pretty red and green (and, if you're lucky, black) chips.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is true. See the following cites of New York case law. If anyone is given a ticket for loitering due to being in a social club playing poker they should plead not guilty.

Disclaimer: This is not legal advice, if you have been charged with a crime please seek legal advice from an attorney.

Here is the relevant part of the loitering statute.
§ 240.35. Loitering

A person is guilty of loitering when he:


2. Loiters or remains in a public place for the purpose of gambling with cards, dice or other gambling paraphernalia

Here is case law stating that this clause in unconstitutional.

CLS Penal § 240.35(2), providing that person is guilty of loitering when he loiters or remains in public place for purpose of gambling, is of doubtful constitutional validity, since it punishes conduct anticipatory of or attendant to lawful gambling activity. People v Melton (1991, Sup) 152 Misc 2d 649, 578 NYS2d 377.

CLS Penal § 240.35(2) is unconstitutional, since gambling is not illegal unless person advances gambling activity when acting other than as player. People v Davidson (1999, Sup) 181 Misc 2d 999, 696 NYS2d 640.

Also see this:

Defendant's conduct of gambling with dice on private property, on driveway in rear yard of private residence, did not occur in "public place," requiring dismissal of CLS Penal § 240.35(2) loitering charge. People v Ocasio (2001, City Ct) 186 Misc 2d 822, 720 NYS2d 908.

[Voltron87]

I heard at NYPC that they're closing down new memberships. They're probably going to have to be a little more discreet.

I'm also curious as to what happens to any underage persons in the club if the police show up and they don't/won't show ID.

[Luv2DriveTT]

ANYONE who doesn't show id goes downtown to central processing. If it is the evening they are released the next morning. If it is a weekend.... lets just say its not pretty.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[Voltron87]

What kind of legal repercussions would be involved? A small slap on the wrist fine (ie the real punishment is going to bookings and staying the night) or a real charge and record? If said suspect is under 18?