Screw collusion...THIS is the problem online....

[lorinda]

Thanks,

Lori

[golFUR]

If you are in fact a lawyer, I have no doubt you are a poor one. My grammar was simple, I did not compare tracking stats to reading books. I was talking about secrets, not specifics.

i.e. Piss off, you can't out-pedant a pedant.

[golFUR]

I agree, pretty much all the way around.

Notice that in neither of my previous posts did I say whether or not I used a stat tracker myself...

[golFUR]

True, irrelevant but true. You've managed twice in the same thread to give me useless responses. Please stop.

[PoorLawyer]

[ QUOTE ]
True, irrelevant but true. You've managed twice in the same thread to give me useless responses. Please stop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right back at ya.

[PoorLawyer]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't agree with using it being morally wrong, since Party choose to make this information available (and they realize how it is used). Hell, they even added the ability to datamine.

What I don't understand is why they do it. It only penalizes the fish, which should be the most important group to keep playing. Perhaps they found out that the players using these tools provide a lot of rake through the sheer volume they play and is therefor a more important group to keep happy? Alternatively, this group would switch to another site providing them with use of these tools if Party didn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you hit the nail on the head. Party does not care about the fairness or moral issue. They chose the most +EV play for them, which is what poker is all about.

[Subby]

This is a pretty interesting thread. A few comments:

1) Heavy datamining is fairly overrated, especially at lower limits. I datamined about 30K 1/2 hands in January and I ended up with heavy data on a bunch of TA-As and scattered data on the fish and maniacs. The life of a fish and a maniac is pretty short anyway - they either wise up (like I did eventually) or go broke. The amount of data you would have combined with the how often you would have to gather it probably exceeds the physical limitations of PT and your home computer.

The real value is being able to datamine a table for 30 minutes before you sit down and then continue to auto-update your hand histories and send that info to GT+ while you play. How much of an edge does this give someone? Tough to say - I know it makes me feel more *comfortable* with my decisions, but I don't know that it has made me more profitable or a better player.

2) The folks who say that PT/GT+ are turning the lower limits into rock gardens need to mosey on over to the 1/2 6max games. It's where the ADHD fish with their last $50 go to die. The 1/2GBP games at Crypto are also similarily loose (and Crypto allows for use of PT/GT+).

3) PT and GT+ are tools. Just like a nail gun won't make someone a better carpenter, PT/GT+ won't make you a better poker player. They won't keep you from CCPF with A7o. You still have to read and learn and play and understand.

Anyway - as long as PT and GT+ are readily available to everyone and they don't violate the T&Cs of the poker rooms at which they are utilized, then I don't really have an issue. I know folks are gathering data on me...let's just hope they are still relying on my data from November and December. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[CLC]

ThinMan wrote:
[ QUOTE ]
... it is information that you where ... a) too lazy to gather,

[/ QUOTE ]

1) Found Programs (PT, PV, GT+)
2) Determined value of programs
3) Purchased programs (as applicable)
4) Learned to use programs
5) Configured programs
6) Used Information
7) Refined program parameters
8) Studied performance/results
9) Refined program parameters
10) Repeat steps 8 & 9
11) Repeat step 10
12) Repeat step 11
ETC., ETC., ETC. .....

ThinMan wrote:
[ QUOTE ]
... it is information that you where ... b) too stupid to gather

[/ QUOTE ]

1) Found Programs (PT, PV, GT+)
2) Determined value of programs
3) Purchased programs (as applicable)
4) Learned to use programs
5) Configured programs
6) Used Information
7) Refined program parameters
8) Studied performance/results
9) Refined program parameters
10) Repeat steps 8 & 9
11) Repeat step 10
12) Repeat step 11
ETC., ETC., ETC. .....

duuhhh .. I think it is time for a nap.

[frank_iii]

[ QUOTE ]
Dude totally! Whoever invented the check-raise should be shot in the head!

[/ QUOTE ]

What's a check-raise and why would you do it? Bet if you have the best hand, fold if you don't. That's what my pappy taught me.

[frank_iii]

[ QUOTE ]
Makes me wonder what everyones notes say about me, and what their Pt says about me. I wonder if it has ever helped anyone against me, as <font color="blue"> I </font> hardly ever know how I am going to play a specific hand. Anyone care to embarass me with some notes/stats?

[/ QUOTE ]

Best post in the thread!!