Fast or slow - flopped boat

[davelin]

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Do you guys bet quads on the flop too?

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Heck ya. Bet the flop, people are more likely to call 1SB than 1 BB.

[Al P]

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Do you guys bet quads on the flop too?

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Heck ya. Bet the flop, people are more likely to call 1SB than 1 BB.

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If it's small quads I agree because there's so many overs that can come that you're not scaring out customers. But in this case I think you are.

If I have 88/99/TT and the flop is KKQ and the flop is checked - on the turn (undercard) I'm going to bet and maybe even raise even though I'm drawing dead. With PF strength and a bet on the flop I'm out of the hand.

[Catt]

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If I have 88/99/TT and the flop is KKQ and the flop is checked - on the turn (undercard) I'm going to bet and maybe even raise even though I'm drawing dead. With PF strength and a bet on the flop I'm out of the hand.

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Why wouldn't you bet your 88/99/TT into this flop?

[Al P]

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If I have 88/99/TT and the flop is KKQ and the flop is checked - on the turn (undercard) I'm going to bet and maybe even raise even though I'm drawing dead. With PF strength and a bet on the flop I'm out of the hand.

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Why wouldn't you bet your 88/99/TT into this flop?

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There was a PF raise by a person with a low VP$IP (Hero). What range of hands can I put him on? Not many that I'm ahead of.

[Catt]

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If I have 88/99/TT and the flop is KKQ and the flop is checked - on the turn (undercard) I'm going to bet and maybe even raise even though I'm drawing dead. With PF strength and a bet on the flop I'm out of the hand.

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Why wouldn't you bet your 88/99/TT into this flop?

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There was a PF raise by a person with a low VP$IP (Hero). What range of hands can I put him on? Not many that I'm ahead of.

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But, if that's the case, why would you bet and raise the turn? You yourself would be fine checking through the flop to "keep customers" on the turn if you had Hero's hand, but you would also intrepret an opponent's check as weakness that justifies going nuts on the turn via betting and raising?

Look at it from another direction. When you bet into this flop, you probably scare the crap out of everyone else. You hold a strong hand, and are behind only AA, a K (how likely?) or a Q. When you get raised on the flop, you can release or call, depending on your read. Whatever happens, you're at least collecting better information at the cost of a SB rather than a BB on the turn when you have only one more card to see, and you don't run the risk of getting rolled bysomeone who would slowplay this flop in the way you suggest. You almost certainly thin the field with a flop bet or get feedback that let's you fold more confidently. If the turn card comes a blank and you bet again, are the gutshots (AJ) sticking around?

I may be effing this play up considerably, but if I'm holding 88/99/TT I'm almost certainly betting this flop (and will certainly bet if I play after pf-raiser's check).

[Al P]

If I'm in hand against hero (I'm a villian remember), I'm in EP and the raise was after me (made by hero).

You're going to bet into a tight PF raiser on this flop?

[Catt]

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You're going to bet into a tight PF raiser on this flop?

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With 88/99/TT, yes, I will. This flop either hit Hero or not. If it hit him, he's either going to smoothcall or raise. If it missed him, he's going to be crapping his pants that I bet into the pf-raiser.

Assume the flop hit him. If he raises, I can release (or in certain cirtcumstances I might call one back and check-fold UI on the turn).

Assume the flop missed him. If he still calls my flop bet and I bet again on the turn, what is he going to do? I have the best hand and he likely has a gutshot draw. If it missed him and he raises on a bluff, I'm in the same position as I was when I assumed it hit him (fold or call, check-fold UI, all for the cost of 1 SB).

Assume the flop hit him and he smooth-calls my bet on the flop and the turn because he's tricky. Now my river decision is tougher, and I'm either bet-folding or check-calling. Either way, I paid 2 BBs and 1 SB to see the showdown. Your line has you paying 1 or 2 BBs on the turn, and after that action I presume you're putting in at least one more on the river? Even if you don't 3-bet the turn after you're raised in your line, I risk an extra SB in total for the reward of possibly winning the pot at the turn. Make sense or no?