Fold KK Here

EdgePort · #1 02-05-2005, 04:51 PM

Looking for comments on the pre-flop play and whether to call the all-in on the flop.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

UTG+2 (t800)
Hero (t800)
MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t675)
CO (t785)
Button (t955)
SB (t785)
BB (t800)
UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t800)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls t15, Hero raises to t75, 2 folds, CO raises to t135, 3 folds, UTG+2 folds, Hero raises to t195, CO calls t60.

Flop: (t427.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO goes All_in for[t590] , Hero ?????

bigredlemon · #2 02-05-2005, 04:56 PM

call
he'll turn over 99, QQ, KK, AKd more often than Tx, JJ, AA.

willperkins · #3 02-05-2005, 05:09 PM

One question?

Why did you check the flop?

To answer your question, you are getting about 1.74 to 1 odds with the second best starting hand in poker and you still have top pair after the flop. Unless he has AA you should be in great shape. I can't imagine him re-raising preflop with TT, JJ or JT, so you are probably ahead. He could have AA, but more than likely has AK or QQ at best. So I would call.

illab · #4 02-05-2005, 05:10 PM

After he reraised before the flop you should have just put him allin.

david050173 · #5 02-05-2005, 05:17 PM

What is up with the mini reraise preflop. After he raises you, you have to decide if he has aces or not. Then you push since your read online isn't good enough to fold aces. You will be called by AK, QQ, JJ, and worse often enough

EdgePort · #6 02-05-2005, 05:28 PM

I think I min-raised because I just hit the raise button without really thinking about it too much. I didn't expect a raise back at me, so when it did I just raised again... I agree that I should have gone all-in at that point.

Sarahanj · #7 02-05-2005, 05:40 PM

I dont really agree with any of you. First of all, bad play before the flop but everyone seems to agree so i wont discuss that. Its hard to put people on hands here because i guess u r playing a 30 dollar tourney or less. I dont think you are up against AA because he would have reraised you before the flop. Neither a JJ or 10,10 because he would have slowplayed those (including a j 10). I guess he could have raised with any J and any 10, AK QK and any Ax d and qq. The hands that dont beat you are having a lot of outs so i think the right thing here is to fold given your preflop play and the check on the flop. On the other hand is there a big chance that he is on a draw and wants to gamble (and drive you out of the pot). If he is on a draw you are not much ahead but considering the money allready in the pot its not a major mistake to call. Personally i would fold and wait for a better opportunity.

Scuba Chuck · #8 02-05-2005, 05:52 PM

After he reraised before the flop you should have just put him allin.

This is the correct answer.

Furthermore, more can be inferred from his call of your reraise. For example, villain reraises you to gather information. I think this is a +$EV move if you have AK. Your retort was to mini-reraise again. I think his call tells you he has some sort of broadway card combination, and frankly, I believe he thinks you have AK or AQ and maybe even JJ. (If he's really fishy, he might have A2 suited)

Post flop, his allin push insures the following:
1) He does not have pocket Tens or Jacks (These would be slowplayed)
2) He might be bluffing, putting your call on a draw if you really do have AK.
3) He most likely has AJ(or J combo, like KJ)
4) Almost as likely, he might have KQ, AK, or AQ and he's betting a some sort of combination of straight draw and/or flush draw.

At the moment, you have the best hand, IMO.

Sarahanj · #9 02-05-2005, 06:44 PM

I agree but what about any 10 combination. 10-q 10-k 10-A maybe s. THen i at least would go all in with a dangerous flop like that. Given his preflop play 10 might be unlikely but than again would most hands.

Scuba Chuck · #10 02-05-2005, 06:55 PM

Sarah, you are absolutely correct. But I don't think the bet signals this likelihood (unless this is a $10+1 which I am failing to consider). But I will put into a revised list. And I see another consideration I failed to realize.

So let's add two more components to the list.

Revised list:
1) He does not have pocket Tens or Jacks (These would be slowplayed)
2) He might have some sort of Ten combination like AT. (I think this would be more likely minibet vs. pushed)
3) He might be bluffing, putting your call on a draw if you really do have AK.
4) He most likely has AJ (or J combo, like KJ)
5) Equally likely has a smaller pp, like 99, 88, etc.
6) Almost as likely, he might have KQ, AK, or AQ and he's betting a some sort of combination of straight draw and/or flush draw.

I still believe you have the best hand at this point, IMO.

Flame away!