Haven't had one of these in a while - a preflop quiz

[davelin]

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Im pretty confused about people saying fold AQ on the button when CO raises. You have a premium hand that works well against fewer opponents, if you reraise there is a decent chance that you will knock a bunch of people out and get it to 3-4 handed and you have the best position. CO is a position that even a solid player would raise with a wide range of hands. Why are we folding this with no reads?

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A fold is so wrong here. A call is Obviously wrong too. The majority of the time you are going to be either WAY ahead, or pretty much even $$. Unless the CO is a rock a 3bet is the only correct move.

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Against a reasonable opponent, you're going to be either way behind or about even. I'm not sure how you're so confident we're usually ahead here.

[DMBFan23]

MoneyMade(good postflop game) >> MoneyMade(good preflop game) > 0

plus I was bored at work.

[KingOtter]

Posting first then will read replies:

1. you're UTG and you hold 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Call.

2. 3 limpers to you in CO, you hold Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Call.

3. folded to you in MP3, you hold A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Raise.

4. 1 limper to you in MP2, you hold 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Call... I think some will say raise this.

5. 4 limpers to you on the Button, you hold A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Call.

6. 3 limpers, Button raises, you're in the BB with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Raise to isolate.

7. 6 limpers to you in the BB, you hold T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Raise for value.

8. UTG+1 raises, 1 cold-caller to you on the button with 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Ooh, tough one. Good question. I think this is supposed to be a raise, but I might cold-call this.

9. loose MP3 limps, rest fold to you on the button with 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Raise.

10. 2 limpers to you on the button with Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Fold. Edit: oops, call here on the button.

11. 1 player limps, UTG+1 raises, and you're next to act with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

This might be a cold-call since he's an early raiser. But I'd probably 3-bet.

12. 2 players limp, CO raises, and you're on the button with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

3-bet.

13. 2 loose players limp, SB completes, you have A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the BB.

Raise.

14. folded to you in MP1 with Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I learned this week this is a raise, I believe. I would have limped otherwise.

15. 3 limpers to you in the small blind with K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

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Complete.

Now I'll go and read how wrong I am.. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

KO

[LotusBoy]

1.) Loose table Call, Tight Table fold, SuperTight Table Raise.
2.) Call
3.) Raise
4.) Raise
5.) Call
6.) Call
7.) Call(50%) Raise(50%)
8.) Call
9.) Raise is Blinds are tight, call if blinds are loose.
10.) fold (80%) raise (20%)
11.) it's close but I fold.
12.) it's even closer, so I call.
13.) Check
14.) Raise
15.) Call.

[KingOtter]

Wow, can't believe how many people are folding AQo. I've been completely over-playing those (after researching this particular hand in SSH and HEPFAP a bit). I'll have to check my results on it when I get home, but I'm pretty sure I'm -bb/100 on it.

KO

[k000k]

1. Call on a weak table, fold on an aggressive one.
2. Limp
3. Raise
4. Limp
5. Limp
6. Call
7. Raise
8. 3bet
9. Limp
10. Fold
11. Raise
12. Raise
13. Raise
14. Limp
15. Raise

[Zoelef]

Trying to tighten up frelop (current VP$IP is ~21%):

1.) Fold
2.) Fold
3.) Call
4.) Call
5.) Fold (agonizngly)
6.) Call
7.) Raise
8.) Fold
9.) Raise
10.) Call
11.) Fold
12.) Call (cold-calling makes baby Jesus cry, I know)
13.) Call
14.) Raise
15.) Call

[DeathDonkey]

Hi btspider,

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11. 1 player limps, UTG+1 raises, and you're next to act with A Q
fold w/o reads

12. 2 players limp, CO raises, and you're on the button with A Q
fold w/o reads


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I think AQo should be a default 3 bet against an unknown at these limits. I'm curious why you think differently. Even against a known TAG I think AQo is almost always a 3 bet.

-DeathDonkey

[stillbr]

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Im pretty confused about people saying fold AQ on the button when CO raises. You have a premium hand that works well against fewer opponents, if you reraise there is a decent chance that you will knock a bunch of people out and get it to 3-4 handed and you have the best position. CO is a position that even a solid player would raise with a wide range of hands. Why are we folding this with no reads?

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A fold is so wrong here. A call is Obviously wrong too. The majority of the time you are going to be either WAY ahead, or pretty much even $$. Unless the CO is a rock a 3bet is the only correct move.

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Against a reasonable opponent, you're going to be either way behind or about even. I'm not sure how you're so confident we're usually ahead here.

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you said it yourself--reasonable. for those of you folding AQ in this situation--you must not be playing party mircos. These are all hands that your avg. opponent on party micro would be raising here.

WAY ahead of me:
AA,KK, QQ, AK

Other hands(your average party micro player) they would be raising with:
JJ, 1010, 99maybe, 88maybe, AQ, AJ, A10, KQ, KJ, QJ. You'll fine alot of people raising any Ace, and hands like K10, J10 aswell.

Again the only way im not 3-betting this is if my opponent is a rock

[SlantNGo]

You can't just say "maybe"... I'll try to put a reasonable estimate on each one of these hands from my Party 0.5/1 and 1/2 experience:

AA - 99% of the time, it's raised
KK - 99%
QQ - 95%
AK - 90% (I'm combining AKs and AK for simplicity sakes)
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383

AQ - 60%

JJ - 70%
TT - 50%
99 - 30%
88 - 20%
AJ - 50%
AT - 20%
KQ - 50%
KJ - 20%
QJ - 10%
---------
320

So,

383/(383+60+320) = 50% of the time you're behind
60/(383+60+320) = 8% of the time you're equal
320/(383+60+320) = 42% of the time you're ahead

If you feel my estimates are out of line, feel free to change them and recalculate based on your own, but AQ is by no means an easy 3-bet.

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WAY ahead of me:
AA,KK, QQ, AK

Other hands(your average party micro player) they would be raising with:
JJ, 1010, 99maybe, 88maybe, AQ, AJ, A10, KQ, KJ, QJ.

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