What's my line here?

Nacarno · #1 02-02-2005, 06:37 PM

I had just sat down at the table so my read on the Villain wasn't very strong, but from the few plays I'd seen, he seemed mostly loose-passive with occasional "where'd that come frome?" bouts of aggression.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) converter

Button ($32.40)
SB ($49.50)
BB ($15.40)
UTG ($48.75)
UTG+1 ($30.20)
MP1 (Villain) ($60)
MP2 ($24)
Hero ($60.80)
CO ($20.70)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 (Villain) raises to $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $1, 1 fold, Button calls $1, 1 fold, BB calls $0.50.

Flop: ($4.25) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Villain bets $1, Hero raises to $3.5, Button folds, BB folds, Villain calls $2.50.

Turn: ($11.25) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero bets $8, Villain raises to $16, Hero ???

Is it giving him too much credit to consider JT, TT, 77, or (possibly) JJ here? I think folding would be waaaaay too weak, but do I try and get all the money in now or on the river? Or do I just call it down?

amoeba · #2 02-02-2005, 06:39 PM

I would just call it down as I find a lot of minraises at these levels with 77-JJ type hands.

Nacarno · #3 02-02-2005, 06:58 PM

I just called the turn raise. The river was a blank and he bet out $20 of the ~$40 he had left. Still just call?

TheWorstPlayer · #4 02-02-2005, 07:20 PM

Yes. He's not going to call a raise with a hand that you beat.

Nacarno · #5 02-02-2005, 08:22 PM

Villain had ATo. While I would typically agree with the whole "not going to call unless you're beat" sentiment, I'm not necessarily sure it's true at these limits. People will call all-in raises all the time on paired boards with flushes and things like that.

I guess I'm still just wondering if I could have gotten more value out of my hand without taking a line that is generally a bad play. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

xerostar · #6 02-02-2005, 08:27 PM

I suggest not raising at the flop with the nuts with a rainbow board. You have the absolute nuts at this point and a raise at the flop alerts the better into slowing down his play. Furthermore, the only cards that might give you trouble are an 8 or a 9, which could force you to chop, but don't worry about the board pairing...this is small stakes and if someone makes a move on you like that you can't expect more than three of a kind. The only time I think I would slow down with this hand is if the person I was playing against was really tight/aggressive and solid. Otherwise if I had no read on him at a small stakes table i would push on the turn. (to the reraise)

joewatch · #7 02-02-2005, 09:27 PM

Preflop - I don't like limping with 89s from mid position, but if your read is that this table was loose-passive preflop with lots of multiway action, fine.

Flop - couple of ways to play this. I think your line of play is fine. You need to raise here to reduce the field. I think I would have made the raise bigger, at least the size of the pot. You should consider winning the pot outright because you might get drawn out by KQ, and you are 4-way. Also, you want to know if you are up against JT or 77, which means a re-raise or flat call of a large bet.

Turn - Your 3/4 pot bet is fine. I would probably have made it a pot-size bet, but that's just my style. Villain check-raises only 1/2 the pot? Smells like a bluff, or he's daring you to re-raise holding JT. I would call here and see how villain plays the river. You might get really lucky and river a 6s or Js. Without improving to the sf, I would call up to a pot-size bet on the river, fold anything substantially more. I would NOT call an all-in bet with a paired board. That's asking for trouble.

ryanghall · #8 02-02-2005, 09:58 PM

I fold this preflop.

On the turn, I'd just call and see what the river brought.

Ryan

Nacarno · #9 02-03-2005, 04:04 AM

I appreciate everyone's comments though I wanted to give some feedback about my thinking on this hand.

Preflop: I used to fold this hand in MP as well, but as I've played more I've gained more confidence in my post-flop play so I've been experimenting with calling small raises with suited connectors and the like to good results. Your hand is well disguised and the implied odds when you hit are huge at these levels. I'd suggest to anyone who is confident in their post-flop play adding these sorts of hands - I feel like it's really been an improvement to my game.

Flop: Obviously I'd like to get as much money in in the flop as possible. Just calling probably gets some others to call as well, but I don't really want to offer the proper odds to a hand like KQ so I felt like a raise was in order. Once I decide to raise, I want people to call with the improper odds. Raising the pot will probably chase out KQ but it will also chase out hands like KJ that I want in the pot with me. Also, there's the chance that a smaller raise will temp someone who has two pair or fell in love with TPTK to reraise me, giving me a chance to get all the money in as a huge favorite.

Anyway, I guess I need to just call it down once the board pairs and he raises me (as you all suggested) and forget about value betting all-in since the situation just became that much more dangerous.

Again, thanks for everyone's input.

steaknshake925 · #10 02-03-2005, 04:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I fold this preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is definitly a call preflop, folding would be a big mistake. small pairs and suited connectors are where the money is made in NL. With these deep stacks Im limping 24s UTG.