How would you, with your infinate poker wisdom, play my hand?

[lorinda]

I've been wanting to word this post for about a year and never managed it.

EVERYONE should read Irie's post.

Lori

[elonkra]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I fold pre-flop, and it's not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

It should be. Work on that.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, this is one of those examples of a $219 player and an $11 player trying to have the same conversation.

In a low-limit SNG if you cold-call 2 raises from the small blind with a small pair in level 2, you do not understand low limit SNG strategy. You have to fold, and it's not close. Suited Sixes and Yugo are right.

The sport changes when you go to the $109's and above because you start to lose the tremendous overlay you have on the bubble at the smaller limits. You cannot jeopardize your chances to get to the bubble in a low limit SNG by always talking yourself into playing small pairs because of implied odds. You miss the flop a lot, and you go broke with small sets sometimes. If you don't make it to the bubble in a $33 SNG or below, you better be passing up that juicy opportunity for a very good reason. Not because you went broke with pocket 7's.

Now, Daliman, in a $219 SNG I would call from the BB with pocket 7's even if the button showed me his aces (as long as he couldn't see my 7's). The implied odds for that hand are well worth the 60 chips, and missing that opportunity is less likely to be overcome by your late stage overlay. At the higher limits you need an overlay at every stage to win consistently.

The mistake that low limit players make is failing to recognize the weighted difference between decisions in level 1 and decisions in level 5. If your opponent is twice as bad as you are, his mistakes at level 5 are 25 times more significant than his mistakes at level 1. At the higher limits you are unlikely to find yourself on the bubble in a situation where you are twice a skilled as everybody else. So the marginal difference in skill multiplied by the higher blinds does not adequately compensate for a missed opportunity to double through somebody early.

Pushing marginal edges early and seeking out opportunities to acquire chips at every level is a great way to earn a 12% ROI. The problem is that at the $11's you can earn a 40% ROI if you understand what you are up against.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't even know what an overlay is, but I am beginning to really like this place and its potential for improving my game, in spite of the fact that it may be several books and months before I can actually participate in a discussion here.

[SuitedSixes]

[ QUOTE ]
I am beginning to really like this place and its potential for improving my game, in spite of the fact that it may be several books and months before I can actually participate in a discussion here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Make posts. This is the best forum to make a mistake in. People will tell you you're wrong (nicely), why you're wrong, and what you need to do to be right. In other forums they just call you an idiot.

[lawpoker]

let me see if i understand you.

one's goal in the low-limit SNG should be to conserve chips early, make the bubble, and then out-play the bad opponents on the bubble.

but in the higher-limit SNG, the disparity in skill level is lessend, and therefore you need to take advantage of every opportunity to get an advantage, regardless of when it presents itself.

is that correct?

thanks.

[etgryphon]

Nah, we'll call you an idiot, but in a nice way...

It good for the character. We all need a reality check on our "great poker skills". Before getting on this forum, I though I was pretty good...Nope...Finding the forum has been the best thing to happen to me by far in my poker life.

As to the OP, and Irieguy's post:

I think Irie is spot on for his post. Great job...With that said I think I would still play this but it would be more influenced by my reads of the people involved. I would only play this hand if I was very reasonably assured that I can get ALL the chips in the middle from one of these guys. You have to make sure that you get at least 8x the PF amount to make this a +CEV move.

To the OP: If I had decided to play which is about 70-80% of the time, I would play it exactly the same way.

-Gryph

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]
let me see if i understand you.

one's goal in the low-limit SNG should be to conserve chips early, make the bubble, and then out-play the bad opponents on the bubble.

but in the higher-limit SNG, the disparity in skill level is lessend, and therefore you need to take advantage of every opportunity to get an advantage, regardless of when it presents itself.

is that correct?

thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love it when people paraphrase something and it sounds better than the original phrasing.

Yes, you are correct.

Irieguy

[sofere]

I love posts that are just barely beyond my understanding, those are the ones I learn most from. Thanks Irie for continually posting these kinds of responses.

OK, enough sucking up...on to the questions.

(1) I just want to make sure I have this straight. In the $219s you would be more inclined to call 7s because the implied odds in the early levels are more valuable than those in the $33s, in that the opportunity to get a chip lead early is more valuable than the cost of missing?

(2) Does this outweigh the fact that in the lower limits the implied odds are likely greater than in the higher limits as many more people cannot get away from TPTK or 2 pair and will be more likely to pay you off?

[ QUOTE ]
I would call from the BB with pocket 7's even if the button showed me his aces (as long as he couldn't see my 7's).

[/ QUOTE ]

(3) Would I be correct in inferring that you would call especially if they showed you AA because it is more likely that they would not be able to get away from the hand? (i.e. Would you rather call 77 against AA rather than against KQ because even though you have a better chance of winning against it, it is unlikely that you would be paid off if you hit a monster)

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]


(1) I just want to make sure I have this straight. In the $219s you would be more inclined to call 7s because the implied odds in the early levels are more valuable than those in the $33s, in that the opportunity to get a chip lead early is more valuable than the cost of missing?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think lawpoker clears this up the best in his post above.

[ QUOTE ]
(2) Does this outweigh the fact that in the lower limits the implied odds are likely greater than in the higher limits as many more people cannot get away from TPTK or 2 pair and will be more likely to pay you off?

[/ QUOTE ]

While low limit players may be more likely to call off their stack with a marginal hand, higher limit players tend to find many more opportunities to try and take you off your hand with a big bet if the board looks right. So, your implied odds may be better against a low limit field if you make a flush (because they will call with TP and a flush on board), but if you make a set against a high limit player holding aces and the board is innocuous, he's going to give you his chips too.

[ QUOTE ]
I would call from the BB with pocket 7's even if the button showed me his aces (as long as he couldn't see my 7's).

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
(3) Would I be correct in inferring that you would call especially if they showed you AA because it is more likely that they would not be able to get away from the hand? (i.e. Would you rather call 77 against AA rather than against KQ because even though you have a better chance of winning against it, it is unlikely that you would be paid off if you hit a monster)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, pretty much. This happens in Pot Limit Omaha quite often, actually. let's say there's a raise and then a pot-sized reraise preflop in front of you in a PLO game. Well, the pot-sized reraiser has aces 90% of the time or more. So, I will call the raise with a hand like 4s-5s-6-6 and price the original raiser in as well. If the flop has 3 cards smaller than 8, I will either have a made hand or a huge draw and I know the guy with aces will bet the pot and I will have a good chance at his whole stack. If I miss, I fold the worse hand... generally a pretty good play in poker.

Irieguy

[walterberk]

I would start by spelling infinite like that. Goat.

[etgryphon]

[ QUOTE ]
I would start by spelling infinite like that. Goat.

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew this was going to get posted, but I didn't want to be the first jerk and I would have phrased it better. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Brutal Forum...but, the best.

-Gryph