99 in the CO, fairly large pot

JP2k1 · #1 02-01-2005, 01:05 AM

What do you think about my play here?...

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero (poster) raises, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks.

 Here I flashed back to reading the chapter in SSH about "when betting will not protect your hand." I figured if I happened to be ahead in this large field, my hand was still vulnerable and I should wait until the turn and see if I can raise on a safe card and thin the field. It seemed like a good play, but was this really the right one? 

Turn: (6.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

 Here is the first place where I think I may have made a mistake. The bet was from EP so it wasn't the spot I was looking for to raise. Yet the pot was big so FOLDING seemed wrong, but I'm not sure if calling was right either, maybe I should have just gritted my teeth and raised. 

River: (10.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks.

 And here I think I may have missed a value bet. Without seeing the results yet, what do you guys think?

Final Pot: 10.25 BB

 I think a flaw in my game is that I play too passively in situations just like these, with a decent but vulnerable made hand in a large field. Any constructive criticism would be great, and if a play is wrong, some kind of explanation would be nice too.

thirddan · #2 02-01-2005, 01:10 AM

bet the flop...

even though the pot is large there are many hands that you can get out that you really want out of this pot...hands like JT/JK may fold to your bet and that greatly improves your chance of winning this big pot...

i don't think you have a value bet on the river...

JP2k1 · #3 02-01-2005, 01:17 AM

In a pot this big, won't those hands call anyway? It seemed like checking the flop increases the chance I can get someone (ideally in LP) to bet the turn, so then I can raise and actually protect my hand. It seemed like betting the flop would not have done so.

I mean, this was my thought process, I could be way off.

college_boy · #4 02-01-2005, 02:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
In a pot this big, won't those hands call anyway? It seemed like checking the flop increases the chance I can get someone (ideally in LP) to bet the turn, so then I can raise and actually protect my hand. It seemed like betting the flop would not have done so.

I mean, this was my thought process, I could be way off.

[/ QUOTE ]

The turn was an 8, what kind of card were you looking to raise on the turn? By not betting the flop you are giving overcards infinite odds, so if your hand is best here it is correct to bet

JP2k1 · #5 02-01-2005, 02:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In a pot this big, won't those hands call anyway? It seemed like checking the flop increases the chance I can get someone (ideally in LP) to bet the turn, so then I can raise and actually protect my hand. It seemed like betting the flop would not have done so.

I mean, this was my thought process, I could be way off.

[/ QUOTE ]

The turn was an 8, what kind of card were you looking to raise on the turn? By not betting the flop you are giving overcards infinite odds, so if your hand is best here it is correct to bet

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said, I wasn't just looking for a safe card, I was ideally hoping for a safe card and a bet from LP. Should I still have raised?

And I understand checking behind was giving infinite odds, but I was hoping for a situation on the turn where I could exploit a bigger edge than the tiny one I may or may not have had on the flop.

thirddan · #6 02-01-2005, 02:43 AM

you have no reason to expect anyone to bet this hand for you...you are the only person that has shown any aggression...also, if you wait for the turn you don't know where a bet will come from, your plan only works if someone to your immediate right bets, if the bet is from EP you still can't protect your hand on the turn even if a safe card comes...

as for betting the flop...you can give someone the opportunity to fold a hand you want them to fold, or you can give them infinite odds to draw out on you...