O8 PF Q

[beset7]

Ok, Truce. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Was it the comment about Foucault that made you mad? (jk) I wrote my final dissertation on his ideas concerning the confessional narrative (history of sexuality vol. 1) as applied to 18th century romantic novelists (focusing on Mary Shelley's Frankenstein). But the time I was done I never wanted to read any more critical theory, much less Foucault.

As for the Rock comment: You are absolutely right. And, sad to say, limit O8 games are dominated by rocks. You should see me play hold em or pot-limit omaha (high or 8b), my PFR stats are off the charts and I'm regularly accused of being a maniac or a TAG on crystal meth or something. But, O8 is a grind and that's how I play it and it's worked for me.

As I recall you recently posted that you wanted to sharpen up your O8 game--that you were a professional hold em player... I think you are on the right track, just try to be more open-minded. If you are playing O8 correctly the weak-tight-o-meter that you developed as a hold em player will be going off regularly. You are also going to be feeling "Dang I'm a passive rock all of a sudden." That is, if your learning process goes anything like mine did. People differ on this greatly. Ted Forrest, for example, is purpoted to have played O8 for an entire year and only folded hands that contained trips and still showed a profit. Others only play A2xx and hardly ever raise pre-flop and profit by virtue of good table selection.

Take care,

-Beset7

[beset7]

purpoted = purported

and I should clarify, Ted Forrest played every hand accept trips PRE-FLOP. He obviously folded a majority of these hands on the flop...

[partygirluk]

The way I see it is analagous to a hand like ATs in HE in a really loose game after a couple of early limpers.

You have a good, but not great hand. Someone behind you could have a better hand. But you have a clear pot equity advantage.

In O8 say someone has a trash hand like 66 K2s. If quite a few people limp, and they can play this for set value alone, then calling one bet PF is not that bad a mistake? But if you raise you can either force them to fold, or preferably pay 2 bets PF.

[Buzz]

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plus this adds variety to your PF raising hands.

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Not much variety. Not much at all. In truth you get these hands with four cards ten or better 4845/270725 or about once every fifty five hands - and I haven't subtracted the unplayable ones from the 4845 total. (QJTTn, for example, is not a very good starting hand, although I'd usually be happy to see it in the unraised big blind).

I can't remember exactly, and it sure doesn't matter much, but I went through all the possibilities once of hands with all four cards ranked ten and above, and decided that a playable hand in that category comes along maybe once every hundred deals.

Raising when you get one doesn't add much variety to your pre-flop raises. (Instead, I think when you raise pre-flop with A2XX hands, you might also want to raise with A3XX, A4XX, and maybe A5XX hands - and generally you like these hands to be suited to the ace, with decent XX supporting cards).

Just my opinion. (I voted for no raise here but whether I raised or not would actually very much depend on the exact situation and the impact I thought the raise would have on my opponents).

Buzz

[KuQuAT]

I voted for call, partly because it's the king that's suited and not a low card. One reason is that you aren't going to get as much flush-over-flush action as much with AKs as with Axs (where someone else has Kxs). However, it's not unreasonable to raise.

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The type of player who is going to call two bets cold with rags pre-flop isn't going to turn around and become a rock once the flop comes down.


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I do disagree with this. There are O8 players who will see the flop at almost any expense, but are very good at post-flop play. I suspect that it's +EV in a loose game, if you can do it.

Step 1. Get 6-1 or better on pre-flop action (even with some raising). At this rate, even marginal hands have value.

Step 2. Hit some bizarro 5-10 straight and quarter two low players (or better yet, two low and one faux-low). Probably, one of the low players will raise the turn and/or river, dragging the others along. The key is to read well enough to get out when you aren't getting half the pot.

It's not my style, because I'm not good enough post-flop, but I've certainly seen it done. Tight Aggressive pre-flop players are anti-thetical to this tactic as they don't give good odds.