Why is QJs one of my worst performers?

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
For me, yes. How bad is that?

The game was getting some multiway pots, so I expected others to come in behind me as well, and they did, we got 5-way action.

looking at twodimes with some reasonable hands, QJs wins more than it's fair share:


Holdem Hi: 850668 enumerated boards

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV

Qs Js 217785 25.60 630531 74.12 2352 0.28 0.257
9c Kd 53109 6.24 790892 92.97 6667 0.78 0.066
Ks Ac 200340 23.55 643661 75.67 6667 0.78 0.239
Tc Td 209011 24.57 639305 75.15 2352 0.28 0.246
6s 6d 163756 19.25 684560 80.47 2352 0.28 0.193

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the biggest problems with being the first caller after the raise is your relative position. Your hand is very likely behind preflop, and most of your best flops are a draw. However since you will be acting directly after the preflop raiser, you won't be able to pump up the pot (because you're risking shutting out all the other players), so one of your biggest money-making tools is taken away from you.

[amulet]

most players know that QJo is trash and in general should not be played unless it is folded to you in late position, and then you raise IF you think you can steal the blinds. and as we know being suited is a slight improvement, but not too much. therefore, QJs is an ok hand at best. i have found that i either play it in late or sometimes middle position after i know the pot will be multiway. otherwise i do not play it.

[SA125]

Compare it to QJo. You'll rarely, if ever, call 2 cold with it. So you justify calling with it based on it's flush power, which hits less than 10% of the time. The time it hits TP, or a piece of the flop, is a lot more than that.

The frequency it's dominated by the raiser is fairly often. A hand that can cost you a lot of money if you stay with it for more than the reason you called with it.

[bicyclekick]

Read this thread.

Also I agree you're probably cold-calling with it too much.

[Fianchetto]

Touché!

All right guys, looking again at twodimes, yes, being in a dominated situation or against an overpair will cripple my pot equity. I’m still trying to determine if it is worth that risk when entering a raised pot with QJs, sounds like no since I may also make a lot of second best hands.

If it as simple as “Stop cold calling raises with QJs”, great! I can fix that today.

So everybody is okay with my postflop play in the hands?

[Michael Davis]

How many hands do you have? Especially because suited hands don't come around that often, it takes forever for these things to even themselves out.

But yeah, just to echo what others are saying, it sounds like you're coldcalling too much.

-Michael

[Fianchetto]

[ QUOTE ]
How many hands do you have? Especially because suited hands don't come around that often, it takes forever for these things to even themselves out.


[/ QUOTE ]

I have ~80K hands of party $15/$30, dealt QJs ~240 times. My CCPF (cold call preflop %) with it is ~12%, tied with med/small pairs for the highest in my database.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
My CCPF (cold call preflop %) with it is ~12%, tied with med/small pairs for the highest in my database.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here, but I would cold call more with medium pairs than with suited connectors like this one because even if you are in a similar situation hot-and-cold, the pairs are often easier to play postflop so your actual results tend to be better.

[Tyler Durden]

[ QUOTE ]

QJs is one of my biggest leaks and I’m trying to figure out why.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
and I will cold call 2 bets with it from any position if I can expect a multiway pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.

Your coldcall in hand 2 is pretty atrocious, plus it could get 3bet and capped before it comes back to you and you're stuck on the installment plan.

[kowboy]

IMO, in middle position calling two cold with this hand is unprofitable no matter what. Dumping money into the pot when you may have to make really tricky decisions post-flop isnt fun. With this hand you will almost always have to make a close decision. AK,AQ,AJ,KJ, your in bad shape and your behind on any pair. Even with flop like Q,8,4, you cant really like. Any of your cards that have top pair stinks most the time because people are coming in to a raise which may mean they have you dominated and your forced to put in more money on a marginal holding. You have third nut flush draw but you make your flush 4in 1 and you still may not win if your up agains Ax suited. This hand IMO works well in late position or blinds with lots of limpers when you have for sure odds and no one shows strength so if your lone Q comes up you have a good shot at having the best hand. [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]