Party 2/4NL-6max hand

fuzzylogic · #1 12-09-2004, 03:20 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, 4$ BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter

UTG (Shortstack) ($88.8)
MP ($198.1)
Button (Villain) ($1191.8)
Hero ($699.6)
BB ($201.7)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG (Shortstack) posts a blind of $2. MP posts a blind of $4.
Button (Villain) raises to $15, Hero calls $15, BB folds, UTG (Shortstack) (poster) calls $86.80 (All-In), MP (poster) folds, Button (Villain) calls $73.80, Hero calls $73.80.

I called because I was pretty sure the Shortstack wouldn't have a much of a hand. I believe he could do this with any ace etc.

Flop: ($270.40) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
Villain checks, Hero bets $100, Villain calls $100.

Hmm...not a bad flop. I think I'm still ahead. I bet 100$ (mistake!? too weak?).

Turn: ($470.40) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
Villain bets $150, Hero ?

Pot is now 470$ plus Villains bet 150$. I have 510$ left. Villain has me covered. What is your play? If u call/raise what will you do on river if

1) a facecard (not J) or an ace hits?
2) a diamond hits?
3) blank hits?

Thanks for input.

FuzzyLogic

schwza · #2 12-09-2004, 01:48 PM

this is an interesting hand. you should cross-post in the mid-high forum - they're usually willing to slum it and talk about 2/4 if the stacks are deep.

but something's screwed up about it. you are supposedly the SB but are acting second post-flop. once you fix it up i'll be happy to comment.

BobboFitos · #3 12-09-2004, 02:07 PM

This is a pretty interesting hand, and I think your PF rationale is fine. But one aspect of the hand makes it VERY tough...

[ QUOTE ]

Flop: ($270.40) 6, 6, 3 (3 players, 1 all-in)
Villain checks, Hero bets $100, Villain calls $100.

Hmm...not a bad flop. I think I'm still ahead. I bet 100$ (mistake!? too weak?).

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont understand your flop bet; its going to get you into trouble. You're not pricing in 6 outers, so I like the bet for raw overcards, but unless TT and under is calling, you're making a serious mistake. In addition, when he does just call, you can't be sure you're beaten. (Although when he does call 100 into a 0 sidepot I'd think my hand was NOT good)
If you want to protect your hand against overcards, this size bet is ok, but you have to understand that if it does get called your hand isn't good... With a protected pot (maybe I'm weak) I'm more inclined to check down.
With a bigger overpair on the other hand I'd want value, especially on this board.

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: ($470.40) 4 (3 players, 1 all-in)
Villain bets $150, Hero ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero folds. Easy part of the hand. He bets 150 into a sidepot of 200, he's not stealing from you with a player all in. (Although would be a crafty move if he did) I really can't imagine you're ahead, and do not think you can draw to your J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. If that was the K (or A obviously) I'd change my stance.

If you DID call (I feel raising would be a mistake... An egregious mistake)

[ QUOTE ]
1) a facecard (not J) or an ace hits?
2) a diamond hits?
3) blank hits?

[/ QUOTE ]

Facecard check/folding
Diamond it's unlikely he's going to call with a worse diamond, check/call. But maybe. That allows him to bet with only hands that beat you, unless he'd try to steal with 4 diamond on board. But I already think he has the better hand, so... If you did cal you'd have 360 left. and I can't imagine you folding if you did get to the river. So yeah, throw it in there if a diamond falls. (He'll call with a few hands you beat whereas he'd check behind with all those; hands that beat you are taking your stack one way or another)
Blank I'm check/calling - You thought your hand was good on the turn so you're committed to calling the river. (A blank doesn't change anything)
If you catch your two outer - puuuuuuuuuuush

fuzzylogic · #4 12-09-2004, 04:36 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter

SB (Shortstack) ($88.8)
BB ($198.1)
UTG (Villain) ($1191.8)
Hero ($699.6)
Button ($201.7)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB (Shortstack) posts a blind of $2.
UTG (Villain) raises to $15, Hero calls $15, Button folds, SB (Shortstack) (poster) calls $86.80 (All-In), BB folds, UTG (Villain) calls $73.80, Hero calls $73.80.

I called because I was pretty sure the Shortstack wouldn't have a much of a hand. I believe he could do this with any ace etc.

Flop: ($270.40) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
Villain checks, Hero bets $100, Villain calls $100.

Hmm...not a bad flop. I think I'm still ahead. I bet 100$ (mistake!? too weak?).

Turn: ($470.40) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
Villain bets $150, Hero?

Pot is now 470$ plus Villains bet 150$. I have 510$ left. Villain has me covered. What is your play? If u call/raise what will you do on river if

1) a facecard (not J) or an ace hits?
2) a diamond hits?
3) blank hits?

Thanks for input.

FuzzyLogic

[/ QUOTE ]

Beavis68 · #5 12-09-2004, 05:54 PM

I don't like that call behind PF.

fuzzylogic · #6 01-27-2005, 09:22 AM

I'm awfully sorry, I totally forgot to post results. And thanks for BobboFitos, you gave a good response.

[ QUOTE ]

Flop: ($270.40) 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
Villain checks, Hero bets $100, Villain calls $100.

Hmm...not a bad flop. I think I'm still ahead. I bet 100$ (mistake!? too weak?).

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont understand your flop bet; its going to get you into trouble. You're not pricing in 6 outers, so I like the bet for raw overcards, but unless TT and under is calling, you're making a serious mistake. In addition, when he does just call, you can't be sure you're beaten. (Although when he does call 100 into a 0 sidepot I'd think my hand was NOT good)
If you want to protect your hand against overcards, this size bet is ok, but you have to understand that if it does get called your hand isn't good... With a protected pot (maybe I'm weak) I'm more inclined to check down.
With a bigger overpair on the other hand I'd want value, especially on this board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, my first feeling was that Villain would have overcards but not big pp.(I don't know why, maybe it was because it took so long time when he called that all-in bet) So I wanted him out with my 100$ bet. I thought that should be enough to make him release his hand if he indeed had just overcards.

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: ($470.40) 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
Villain bets $150, Hero ?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero folds. Easy part of the hand. He bets 150 into a sidepot of 200, he's not stealing from you with a player all in. (Although would be a crafty move if he did) I really can't imagine you're ahead, and do not think you can draw to your J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. If that was the K (or A obviously) I'd change my stance. [ QUOTE ]

Agreed, I couldn't see how I could have call his turn bet. I wasn't yet pot committed so I decided that my hand is no good and I don't like to back up my hand with my stack. So, I folded.

River was 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

ShortStack showed A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]-J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Villain took the pot with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]-Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] nice play...