maniac tilt table family pot hand

k000k · #1 01-26-2005, 09:25 AM

UTG in this hand is a bonified 100%/100% maniac after about 50 hands.. Bets/raises EVERY time the action comes to him PF and probably 90% of the time postflop.. According to the PP lobby, the avg pot on this 1/2 table was $31 for a while. He's also telling the table his cards preflop (and never lied once that I saw), he says he has 53o this hand. He's also chatting about 10 lines of insults to everyone else per hand. AND he's up about $80, he had this table on tilt bigtime, everyone's trying to beat the maniac.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls, CO (poster) raises, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, CO caps, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Ok, I swear this is the first time I've seen him LIMP preflop. The whole table is in for 1, PERFECT time to play Kxs right? Well CO's raise, gotta call that, and when the nutjob raises, that gets no respect, so long as CO doesn't cap it, I don't mind calling that one too I guess.. CO capped, hm... No turning back now, gotta see the flop.

Flop: (25.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls, CO raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

So UTG hit a 3, yay.. I have an overcard and a BD flush, the pot's offering me 28.5:1, don't I have to stay in? PLZ don't raise CO! But even if he does, I imagine everyone will call it, so I'd STILL be getting 19:1 or something on 2 SB. Implied odds make it up. Unless nut 3bets.. Damn I wish everyone would calm down! If a heart doesn't fall on the turn, I will fold. I'm not happy about this aggro CO, I dont trust my K outs, but that BD flush, there's too much $$ on the table and too many players in to not try it right?

PF, I think I did the right thing. The nut limped, I was LP, no reason to fear a raise behind me, then I just got kinda sucked in.. I feel fishy about the flop.. I knew it was a huge longshot, but I also knew it'd pay HUUUGE if it hit. There's $37 or so in there, and we havent even hit the big streets yet! I dont get practice with this kind of action, is my normally good judgment blinded by the giant pots, or is this ok?

moot · #2 01-26-2005, 09:42 AM

I probably just leave the table and go find some nice and passive fishies to eat.

But then again, I'm a coward.

I might fold preflop. I guess I can see the call, but when it gets raised and reraised I fold preflop (though it is mutliway so it's tempting to want to see if you hit your flop). Then I check-fold on the flop (then again it's tempting see if that 4th heart comes for only one bet) (until it becomes more bets).

It's a juicy pot. This seems to be one of those borderline situations where your calls aren't horrible, but they're not particularly great either. The only way to win is not to play. Find a better table.

EDIT == Or I dunno, maybe stay and learn to play against that type of guy. I'm not saying people should leave the second a maniac shows up (in some cases it's all the more reason to stay). He's profitable for people who know how to handle him. I don't and it doesn't sound like you do either. So stick to what you know and find a better table.

EDIT 2 == Ugh, just ignore everything but the first two sentences. Now that I think about it, I'm an idiot who doesn't know how to play in this situation so I should probably just keep quiet and try to learn from the people who do. Sorry.

SCfuji · #3 01-26-2005, 09:48 AM

tighten up preflop and punish them all when you get rock solid hands. when a maniac is the table, human tendency is to focus on the maniac. remember that there are still eight other players at the table who have two cards. and figure out the best way to use the maniac to protect your hand/build pots.

regarding this hand i fold preflop and if i see the flop i fold on the flop.

fuji

adsman · #4 01-26-2005, 09:48 AM

kOOOk, is he still there? Can we come and watch?

topspin · #5 01-26-2005, 10:44 AM

The initial preflop limp looks fine, but you've got to fold when it comes back to you for two cold. CO can't be pushing a marginal hand; he's a poster and I assume therefore doesn't have a read on UTG as maniac yet and must have a real hand. K8s sucks against any real hand.

On the flop you have no pair, no draw, unless you want to count 1.5 outs for your backdoor flush, in which case you need something like 1:31 to call. Just fold and wait for a better hand.

[ QUOTE ]
he's up about $80, he had this table on tilt bigtime

[/ QUOTE ]

Playing maniacs is tricky but profitable; as someone else said, you can really make a bundle off them when you hit a premium hand. However, K9s isn't that hand, especially not after this flop.

kenberman · #6 01-26-2005, 10:46 AM

I think calling 2 cold pre-flop here is bad.

btspider · #7 01-26-2005, 10:59 AM

PF limp is fine. when its 2 bets back to you, you can likely expect a cap and no folds.. so about a 21 SB pot and you would have to put 3 more in to see it.. 21:3... seems like the table is implied odds central despite putting 3 more bets in PF you can expect them to pay off like slot machines. even after a discount for hitting a hand and losing, it seems like you can see the flop here. you are going to experience some massive variance at this table though.

the flop is another tough decision. if you call, CO will raise sometimes and UTG will likely 3-bet with his pair. you have the odds to put in 1 bet, but not 3 (or 4) to peel off one card. if you put the first 1 in, you might then have the odds to put in a couple more.. but perhaps not. you should definitely call the second time closing the action for 1 more bet though. i think it might be best to just fold for the single bet, fearing a likely raise behind from a PF capper.

topspin · #8 01-26-2005, 11:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
PF limp is fine. [...] 21:3... seems like the table is implied odds central despite putting 3 more bets in PF you can expect them to pay off like slot machines.

[/ QUOTE ]

If hero has a small pocket pair, I'm with you here; if he hits his set on the flop his implied odds are great, and if he misses it's an easy fold.

With K8s I'd have to disagree. With one legitimate preflop raiser in there, I think he's going to win only if he flushes or flops some funky trips/full house. If he flops a flush draw, he still faces the prospect of calling a jammed flop/turn at a maniac table to see the river. In other words, he's only about 1:12.5 to try to make his flush, and he faces the prospect of having to put in quite a lot more bets post-flop to see if it comes in.

btspider · #9 01-26-2005, 11:30 AM

a capped 4-6 way flop when he holds a flush draw sounds good to me. the flop is the street he can make up some of the implied odds he needs to make the PF call profitable.