bottom set - do you take down good size pot or trap?

Kips Bay Kid · #1 01-24-2005, 10:57 PM

with two others in the pot I was happy taking this down when I did, after getting another $10 from them, the PFR turns out had QQ, I did not think it was worth it to let him hit his set, is this a smart play, or do you put yourself in a tough spot since the only hand that may call you beats you, then again that is usually considered seeing monsters under your bed. I don't like raising 33 PF, 44 is my cutoff, not sure why, just is - how do people play this differently?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

BB ($214.90)
UTG ($89.45)
Hero ($181.20)
MP1 ($61.05)
MP2 ($100)
CO ($42.95)
Button ($167.55)
SB ($113.80)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $1, Hero calls $1, MP1 raises to $5, MP2 calls $5, 3 folds, BB calls $4, UTG folds, Hero calls $4.

Flop: ($21.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $5, MP1 raises to $10, MP2 calls $10, BB folds, Hero raises to $35, MP1 folds, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: $76.50
Main Pot: $51.50, won by Hero.
Pot 2: $25, returned to Hero.

Results in white below: 
No showdown. Hero wins $76.50.

DoomSlice · #2 01-24-2005, 11:06 PM

I trap. Letting them draw to 2 outs while milking them the entire way is what it's all about. In this situation, the best thing Villain could have done is fold, which is what your re-raise allowed him to do. Perfect board to slowplay a set.

Kips Bay Kid · #3 01-24-2005, 11:08 PM

what worries me is I do not know what pair he is drawing too, any J, Q, K, or A hits on the turn and what is your action?

DoomSlice · #4 01-24-2005, 11:17 PM

Come alive and put him to the test... if he hit a 2 outer you're SOL. But even if you're sure he has JJ-AA, that's still only a 1/7 chance that he hit it.

So, broadway card hits... now is the time to check-raise.

BradleyT · #5 01-24-2005, 11:29 PM

You know he's only about 4% to hit his set on the turn right?

Did you have a read on him for an overpair? This is a perfect board for a slowplay or a checkraise. Since this board is non-threatening to an overpair he's going to probably bet 3/4th or the full pot amount (his min-raise is pretty weak though, so maybe he was a weakie). Since he acts immediately after you this is great because this allows him to bet, you get to trap other callers and then it's your turn to decide to push or wait until the turn.

If he had been in last position betting out would be a better line. If you go for a checkraise you don't get any trapped callers in the pot - you simply knock them out with your raise after his bet which is not what you want to do on a board like this.

But betting $5 into a $20 pot is pointless when there was strength shown preflop. If I was going the betting line I'd bet $15-20 and if they all smooth call push on the turn. If he re-raises push on the flop.

You could have gotten more money out of this hand by betting it yourself or going for a checkraise (key being him betting immediately after you and his PF strength).

Kaz The Original · #6 01-24-2005, 11:42 PM

Bet $15 on the flop and look like A10. If he raises, you can just call and then bet out again on the turn. There are no draws as your initial bet should take out 67, and 64 / 42 are very unlikely.

Your line here just reeks like a set. Don't be so small.

Also betting $15, getting raised with a caller, reraising after that is fine as well. Just bet 2/3rds the pot damnit! : 0

TheWorstPlayer · #7 01-24-2005, 11:54 PM

Personally I like lead out, just as you did, then smooth call the raise. Then lead out underbetting the turn. He won't fold to an underbet on the turn, so either he raises and you push (now he is pot committed) or he calls and then you value bet the river. Against aggressive players this works brilliantly because the underbet on the turn looks like you are weak with either a TPTK-type hand, an underpair trying to not give odds to overcards, or a draw so they raise almost every time with their overpair (which is probably what I would do in that position, honestly.)

Kips Bay Kid · #8 01-24-2005, 11:57 PM

Another hand, what do you make of this one, I think I am stuck calling that last bet, unless you really put him on a PP that made him a bigger boat...OK, OK, OK my PF call was marginal, I was in the BB and there were a number of people in the pot and it was only another $2, looking past the PF action...what do you see?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

CO ($37.55)
Button ($36)
SB ($35.45)
Hero ($222.60)
UTG ($24.85)
UTG+1 ($36)
MP1 ($22.20)
MP2 ($72.40)
MP3 ($140.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $1, MP1 calls $1, MP2 raises to $3, MP3 calls $3, 2 folds, SB calls $2.50, Hero calls $2, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $2.

Flop: ($16) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets $6, SB folds, Hero calls $6, MP1 folds, MP2 folds.

Turn: ($28) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $7, Hero raises to $16, MP3 calls $9.

River: ($60) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $27, MP3 raises to $54, Hero calls $27.

Final Pot: $168
Main Pot: $168, between Hero and MP3. > Pot won by MP3 ($168).

Results in white below: 
Hero has 5d Ks (full house, fives full of kings).
MP3 has 6c 6h (full house, sixes full of fives).
Outcome: MP3 wins $168.

TheWorstPlayer · #9 01-25-2005, 12:06 AM

Preflop: pretty bad.
Flop: pretty bad.
Turn: fine.
River: fine. (But worst card in the deck for you.)

BradleyT · #10 01-25-2005, 12:23 AM

K5o? C'mon lol that's just awful. Even suited it's horrible. Think about what kinds of flops you want to see against a pre-flop raiser with this hand. Now think about how often those flops are going to occur. Hopefully you don't play that garbage from the small blind, WHY would you call it for a raise?

I would be embarrassed to ever admit I lost my stack with K5o...or stacked another player in this case, err almost stacked him, wtf he didn't get all his chips in?