20/40 Mirage KK

[Joe Tall]

Same game as my 66 post.

I open raise in EMP w/K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Only the blinds call. The SB seems to be a regular, running bad but playing fairly solid. The BB is no worry.

Flop: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB bets, BB calls, I call

Turn: A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB bets, BB folds, I call.

River: T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB bets, I call.

Go Pats!
Joe Tall

[DcifrThs]

it looks like sb made a loose call preflop with Ahxh and hit the ace on the turn...i think the flop should be raised...i'd play this one faster on teh flop...why wouldn't the sb take a standard c-r the set line? looks like a good draw or one pair hand on the flop.

i'd raise the flop but other than that...welll...maybe fold the river if you think he'd bet other pocket pairs like this..but that ace had to scare him so i dont know if he'd bet a worse hand expecting you to call heads up on the river other than a bluff...but in the end i play it the same was post flop...but raise the flop.

-Barron

[KillingAristotle]

Were you planning to raise the turn if a brick hit? Waiting for your equity to go up before you popped it? I personally think raising the flop is a good idea. That's a draw heavy board which leads me to believe SB probably has *some* piece of it, and wouldn't be folding to a flop raise. Also, you need to make them pay for their draws, blah blah. Anyways i'm sure you know all this so you must have had some other reason. I'd like to hear it.

[KillingAristotle]

[ QUOTE ]
it looks like sb made a loose call preflop with Ahxh and hit the ace on the turn...

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you assume SB hit the ace on the turn? Just because they bet again? I think it's quite conceivable that he/she is still drawing, especially because of the preflop action.

[onegymrat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it looks like sb made a loose call preflop with Ahxh and hit the ace on the turn...

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you assume SB hit the ace on the turn? Just because they bet again? I think it's quite conceivable that he/she is still drawing, especially because of the preflop action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps because villain also bet the river.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it looks like sb made a loose call preflop with Ahxh and hit the ace on the turn...

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you assume SB hit the ace on the turn? Just because they bet again? I think it's quite conceivable that he/she is still drawing, especially because of the preflop action.

[/ QUOTE ]

if the sb plays solid post flop the river bet often indicates a desire for a call. further, the turn bet indicates a holding that does not want to be checked through. since the description of the sb is that he is fairly solid and not running well, Ah8h may look better than it normally does. not everybody is perfect and sb may have then been betting the draw on the flop.

and even if he did it again on the turn, the fact that a solid player has now bet twice and another (obviously noticeably solid player) calls both on the turn and flop it would make it more likely that he'd call the river. so if the sb wants a call on the river, it seems that its a hand that has completed. betting a flush draw with the ace on the flop seems straightforward.

therefore i think he hit the ace. but since there are other possibilities the call down without a raise, given no raise on the flop is correct IMO.

-Barron

[KillingAristotle]

Ah, good point. Apparently I chose to ignore the river bet.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Ah, good point. Apparently I chose to ignore the river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

its not just the river bet...its the river bet given all the action and description of the player.

Barron

[KillingAristotle]

Yeah I understand this. I think at the time I was just trying to point that during the hand it was still unclear whether or not the turn bet meant an Ace. I don't exactly know what this contributes to the discussion, though, considering it's still probably not a good idea to raise the turn once the ace comes.

[Ezcheeze]

Ever heard of bluffing/semibluffing? He doesn't have to be bluffing or value betting a worse hand (I know the poster said he seems pretty solid but that doesn't mean he is solid) very often to make calling down profitable. I'm really baffled as to why you put the opponent on one hand. He could have a whole range of hands here. And if you were only led to the conclusion that this player had that hand by all action +river action then your comments only apply to the river and aren't very important since by that time you are calling anyway given pot size.

I also would normally raise the flop but I like sometimes calling here to raise a good turn.

-Ezcheeze