Where did I botch this hand? (flopped set)

Derek in NYC · #1 01-23-2005, 08:30 PM

The initial call was a bit frisky, but this was a pretty aggressive table, and I expected the pot to be multiway. No reads on the preflop 3-bettor or capper, due to multitabling. Flop played fine, but three broadway cards plus the preflop/flop cap had me scared of set over set. Monsters under the bed?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button 3-bets, SB folds, BB folds, UTG caps, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (17.33 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, Button folds, UTG 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero caps, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (14.66 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (17.66 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 20.66 BB

limitholdemshark · #2 01-23-2005, 08:48 PM

this is an easy one!
u have a clear cut fold preflop because u r compleatly dominated not by one hand but 2 hands (utg,utg1)and there r still other players 2 act b hind u.
that bing said u played the hand rite when utg came out betting on the turn id b shivering in my boots concerning set over set and i no that was the case hereunless utg was an idiot or a maniac

good luck

the shark

valphoosier · #3 01-23-2005, 09:01 PM

I disagree with calling on the flop. Knowing it's agressive, you have to think that you may end up paying 3 or 4 bets for those sixes that will hit 1 in 8.5 times or so.
Once you flop your set, you might want to wait until the turn to get your raise in. You're going to make money by raising on the flop, but you will probably make more by putting it in on the turn and, in that case, you would make calling with a flush draw less profitable (it is very profitable to call with a flush draw to your raise on the flop). I understand slowing down when the queen comes. Calling may then be proper, but I don't think raising the turn would be that horrible.
I'm probably completely wrong, but these are my thoughts.

bisonbison · #4 01-23-2005, 09:02 PM

this is an easy one!
u have a clear cut fold preflop because u r compleatly dominated not by one hand but 2 hands (utg,utg1)and there r still other players 2 act b hind u.
that bing said u played the hand rite when utg came out betting on the turn id b shivering in my boots concerning set over set and i no that was the case hereunless utg was an idiot or a maniac

good luck
the shark

You will die friendless and alone.

private joker · #5 01-23-2005, 09:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]

You will die friendless and alone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clearly I am a novice at tearing guys like this a new a[/i]sshole. I'll sit back and let the pros destroy the very soul of 'the shark'. The only defense is a strong offense.

Entity · #6 01-23-2005, 09:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with calling on the flop. Knowing it's agressive, you have to think that you may end up paying 3 or 4 bets for those sixes that will hit 1 in 8.5 times or so.
Once you flop your set, you might want to wait until the turn to get your raise in. You're going to make money by raising on the flop, but you will probably make more by putting it in on the turn and, in that case, you would make calling with a flush draw less profitable (it is very profitable to call with a flush draw to your raise on the flop). I understand slowing down when the queen comes. Calling may then be proper, but I don't think raising the turn would be that horrible.
I'm probably completely wrong, but these are my thoughts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amulet? Are you in there? Hello?

Derek in NYC · #7 01-23-2005, 09:22 PM

Ok, all joking aside. You may not like the preflop coldcall, but I do this on aggressive tables where I think the pot will be multiway. (Ed Miller incidentally says preflop coldcalls with pairs is fine in certain table situations, for the implied value of flopping a set.) Once the pot gets 3-bet and capped, I'm obviously not happy, but I'm in it until the flop for sure.

The flop plays itself. My question is whether raising 4th street is right given the prior action, or whether calling down is right.

deadmunny · #8 01-23-2005, 09:30 PM

My thoughts are these, You lucked out with the flop (which is what you wanted right?) I am raising the turn, and probably raising the river too I am thinking maybe AKs...... wrong move?, like i said just my thoughts

PhatPots · #9 01-23-2005, 09:31 PM

Well the problem is your preflop play as many ppl have stated. But I can't blame you, you justified it. You thought that there would be a lot of multiway action and you would have one a big pot if you hit your set. Once it got capped back to you I would think that one of them has a bigger pair. But I can't fault you for the call. Then you hit your set and you had to call it down, such a large pot, I would have done it the same. Although, the more exp. players are telling you that you should fold preflop.

Cheers,
Pots