Should I have value raised this flop?

[shaundeeb]

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $3.
UTG folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB
I wanted to take control of the hand and with so many people in I figured it was +EV to raise the pot. I planned on leading any turn card even another J and also just calling a raise if my bet is raises on a non heart. Any heart I am going to 3bet unless its the 3h. River going to check/fold non heart/ace.

[wuarhg]

Flop play looks good but I would not bet the turn, check and call a bet, you don't want to get raised when you're on a draw.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
I planned on leading any turn card

[/ QUOTE ]

This would be a mistake. You need either a damned good amount of folding equity or pot equity to pull this off on the turn, and with just a flush draw, you don't have it.

Your flop call-3bet is nice. Check-call the turn if it's a non-[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], unless it's specifically a 2, an Ace, or a 5, in which case you probably have equity to bet out, assuming you'll get 3 callers (you probably don't need 3 callers if an Ace falls).

Rob

[Rico Suave]

Entity:

[ QUOTE ]
This would be a mistake. You need either a damned good amount of folding equity or pot equity to pull this off on the turn, and with just a flush draw, you don't have it.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty much how I have thought about the situation, but I rememeber Clarkmeister, on more than one occassion, has advocated leading in a spot like this. If I am not remembering correctly, I hope someone will call me out on this, but I think he says continuing with the lead on the turn will keep a lid on the turn aggression and will make it more likely to go through for 1 bet, as opposed to 2. I dunno, perhaps his advice was tailored to the higher games in Vegas,or perhaps something particular about the opponents leads him to that conclusion, but I distinctly remember him advocating a turn lead.

Wish I could find the thread (and I wish I had asked for clarification at the time).

--Rico

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
Entity:

[ QUOTE ]
This would be a mistake. You need either a damned good amount of folding equity or pot equity to pull this off on the turn, and with just a flush draw, you don't have it.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty much how I have thought about the situation in the past, but I rememeber Clarkmeister, on more than one occassion, has advocating leading in a spot like this. If I am not remembering correctly, I hope someone will call me out on this, but I think he says continuing with the lead on the turn will keep a lid on the turn aggression and will make it more likely to go through for 1 bet, as opposed to 2. I dunno, perhaps his advice was tailored to the higher games in Vegas, but I distinctly remember him advocating a turn lead.

Wish I could find the thread (and I wish I had asked for clarification at the time).

--Rico

[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree with you if someone had capped our check-call-3bet, but once we do that, I think it's not going to get bet and raised very often in front of us on the turn.

Rob