KQ missing the flop and I'm lost

[Miagi]

I'm new to playing hold 'em, but this what I would do. You have roughly 10 outs:
1.5 queens (overcard, facing flush/straight draw = .5 out each)
1.5 from kings (overcard, .5 out for [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] = facing/straight draw)
3.5 from jacks (straight, .5 for [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img])
3.5 more from the rest of the [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the deck (7).

Which you would roughly need 3.6 to 1 pot odds to call. You are looking at about 5 to 1. I would call and not raise because you don't have that big of an edge. Does that seem correct?

[sean c]

Great post crunchy two betting the turn I didn't think about that it shure will identify whats in the other two's hand. You coverted me.

[crunchy1]

Thanks.. the more I think about it raising just seems like the best play here. Aside from the pot odds, equity and all the other mathmatics I think this is a good play to to help slow down the LAG against you in future pots. I'm not condoning doing this regularly, as you won't need to. One time will be enough to show the UTG that "Hey, I'm not gonna back down under the pressure of your ultra-agression every time!". It's an especially valuable play spending the majority of time on his left. It's also the perfect situation given the current hand/pot conditions (i.e. Small pot, low number of players involved, lots of weakness shown up to this point).

Rannerboy, I still think a flop bet should have been made - and that would have changed the play of the hand dramatically. But, in the absence of that bet and in the current situation I say: raise, raise, raise!!!

[beginner]

I don't like raising pre-flop with KQ in early position. Given that you did, you should probably bet the flop to try to knock out opponents.

[Avatar]

[ QUOTE ]
hey welcome to the forums. nice first post, well constructed.

preflop and flop are fine of course, and calling the turn is pretty simple.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you like betting this flop and taking a free card on an unimproved turn better?

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's where I get into trouble. I bet the flop. Say I get 3 callers (lose one guy). Do I lead out on the turn? How do you approach a raise on the turn if you do lead out?

your second last to act. you should not be betting this flop into 3 players in EP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Mike,

You've got a relatively non-dangerous flop that is offering you two backdoor draws and overcards. Is betting from this EP really not a sound play? I'm aiming to thin the field here with a bet; is this bad? I'm still reviewing my play of overcards from EP.

Rob

[PotatoStew]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like raising pre-flop with KQ in early position. Given that you did, you should probably bet the flop to try to knock out opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I love raising PF w/ KQ from any position. I'd also have bet this flop.

[rannerboy]

Thanks for all the great feedback guys. You all convinced me that I definitely should have bet the flop. The turn play I'm still not sure whether a call or raise would be best. What I did in the actual hand was... fold. I kind of didn't count my outs correctly and figured that the pot was small. I guess the turn play would have been a lot easier if I had bet that flop...

[GrunchCan]

I actually consider the flop to be marginally good for overcards; not the best, not the worse.

There are 2 draws on board, and neither are giving up to a bet on the flop. PPs probably also mnight not fold. The only cards folding are probably going to be other overcards. But since you have them either dominated or beat (except AK, which seems unlikely), wouldn't you rather not chase them away?

I'm not saying I don't like betting the flop. I do like betting the flop. But in my case, it'as much for value as to protect. If someone chooses to fold the winning hand or a strong draw, that's great. If someone chooses to fold busted or weak draws (like clubs), that's ok too. But I doubt I have the fold equity to try and take the pot here & now.

[sublime]

You've got a relatively non-dangerous flop that is offering you two backdoor draws and overcards. Is betting from this EP really not a sound play? I'm aiming to thin the field here with a bet; is this bad? I'm still reviewing my play of overcards from EP.

hey rob-

if your in EP against multiple opponents in this situation i dont think betting is wise for a few reasons:

1) you were either cold called in LP preflop
2) you raised mutliple limpers from the blinds

either way you are dealing with players who put whole bets into the pot with no discount. while this flop is pretty ragged and offers you some chances to improve on the turn, there are not many hands here that are going to fold to your flop bet that offer much risk to you.

i also have a hand that wants to see the turn and i would prefer to do it as cheap as possible (this gets more important as you start playing in more aggressive games for obvious reasons) and by checking, i get to see the the action and respond, or in some cases get a free card anyways.

in the hand hero posted, a flop bet increses the chances of him getting a free card on the turn (i still think its thin, but probably has value in more passive games)

of course this was just a generic answer that would change to some degree or another depending on specifc conditions.

hope i made sense [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]