Addiction and happiness EV

[Germane]

Hello esteemed posters and readers,

I don't post here much but I do read and learn a lot. Lately I've been concerned about my addiction to poker. I've been a winning player for a long time now (ever since "Positively Fifth Street" came out). I've moved up the stakes from 25 NL to 200 NL and 15-30 limit. My problem is that I am nowhere close to poker nirvana.

Bad luck still bothers me and keeps me up at night. A big winning day makes me real happy and also keeps me up. I find that when I play I often play for longer than I had planned to. Lately, this has been rather extreme. Last night I was up until 8 AM playing. This morning, I asked myself "How much would I have to make to justify throwing away that night and pretty much the next day?" I don't have a firm number here, but it's a lot more than it would take to justify killing 2 hours in the evening. Unless I'm on super tilt (yes, it still happens, though very rarely), every time I sit down at Party Poker it's a +EV situation. Even when the games are relatively tight (6 & 7 AM) I know how to play and I know I have an edge bigger than the rake. But what matters in life isn't the amount of money I accumulate, it's the amount of happiness. My happiness EV isn't postiive every time. In fact, it is really hard to justify playing super late, when the games are tighter and I'm sacrificing sleep. BUT I DO IT ANYWAY.

Why!?

I am addicted to poker, and I think it's an unhealthy addiction. I'm a student right now (University of Michigan). My grades were 3.45 last term, and I know they could be much higher. If every hour of poker were devoted to school (this is probably unrealistic because poker is more of a leisure activity), then I certainly would've had a 4.0.

Is $12,000 worth that large of a drop in my GPA?

What about the damage that 20 hours (this is an assumption) of online, anti-social poker can do to my personality and soul in a week?

I have an addiction, damnit!

I've called the gambler helplines and they are not helpful because they are fixated on the fact that I am "losing money and going broke and if not I will in the long run", which isn't at all the problem.

This week I'm going to the university's counseling service. Perhaps they'll be of help.

I have taken breaks from poker. I took nearly 2 months off after going on a 200 BB losing streak. It takes a bit of effort to quit, but then I have little urge to come back. (Apparently not too little, because I always do!). But when I'm actively playing, I never want to quit, and I want to boot it up all the time.

My new strategy?

No playing Monday-Thursday, and only playing peak times other days, 4 hour max per day.

Decent strategy? Seems okay. Comments welcome. The chance of me failing it is high though. As I said, when I play, I can't stop.

The thing is I don't want to just give up poker. I make good money for the time invested. I typically enjoy it. I am desperately trying to find a balance between cold turkey (booo!!!) and unhealthy addiction. All advice, comments, questions, and smiley faces are appreciated.

[Al Schoonmaker]

Since I am not trained as a clinician, don't take my remarks too seriously. I hope some of my clinical colleagues comment.

Your post is clearly a "cry for help." You recognize you have a problem and want help in solving it.

You used the term "addiction," but it is different from the typical pathological gambler's (PG) problem. PG normally lose, while you're winning.

Winning is only partly good news. The fact that you're making money makes it extremely easy for you to continue to play far too many hours.

You're intelligent enough to understand that the long term EV of EXCESSIVE play is negative. You asked a question, but you already know the answer.

"Is $12,000 worth that large of a drop in my GPA?"

Of course, it's not, especially if you hope to go on to grad school. A lower GPA can be the difference between getting into a great school and a mediocre one, and your long term earning potential will be higher with a degree from a great school.

The real danger is that you may decide, as many young people have decided, to turn pro. I have met lots of people who made that choice, and many of them regret it. Of course, some think it was a good move, but the long term prospects are not encouraging. Hardly any career pros ever end up financially independent.

I don't have the training to comment on the effects of gambling on your soul, etc.

You wrote: "The thing is I don't want to just give up poker. I make good money for the time invested. I typically enjoy it. I am desperately trying to find a balance between cold turkey (booo!!!) and unhealthy addiction. All advice, comments, questions, and smiley faces are appreciated."

The most important word was "balance." That's what we all have to seek, not just about poker, but about everything.

You've posted in the right place, and your post communicates a genuine desire to learn. I feel confident that you will get many helpful replies. You may also get a couple of flames, but don't pay attention to them.

Keep your attention where it belongs: on finding that critically important balance.

Regards,

Al

[reid savid]

It sounds like you want to brag to people online and to that counseler. If your going to gloat just do it, instead of trying to hide it. Your problem is a Narcissistic one, not a gambling addiction.

[Germane]

Judging by your posts, it's you with the narcissism, not me. Trust me, my post was no gloat. It was a public assessment of what I think of my gambling. I don't often see poker addressed in terms of anything except monetary terms. (Granted, I haven't looked too hard.) Anyway, if you're just going to post uninformed (and misspelled) drool, then go over to the Yahoo! message boards. I'm no more narcissistic than the next poker player.

[Sephus]

cheers to a fellow wolverine.

i didnt read your post as gloating.

like Dr. Al, i also am not trained as a clinician (go figure), but i do know something about playing poker and going to school.

you probably don't want to hear this, but my knee-jerk reaction is that you should quit completely, at least for now. if you can admit you are addicited to poker, it can not be healthy for you. i know the money is great, but your future is not in poker, it's in your education.

if you want to play all the time, you're probably preoccupied with it even when doing school related stuff. granted, playing poker 20 hours a weeks is probably more healthy than getting plastered every night, but you must have emotional control over it. if it controls you, you will not be really happy with your life.

also, i know atheism/agnosticism is the norm for 2+2ers and many college students, but religious/spiritual type therapy can work wonders fighting addicitive behavior. if you grew up religious at all but have run away from it since you went to school, reawakening your former spiritual life is almost certainly +EV from where i sit.

consider getting a part-time job. i know you can probably make more playing poker but when you're wrapped up in that, school, and social life it can allow you to stop thinking so much about poker, plus you earn some of the money back.

by the way, 3.45 for one semester is not that bad by any means, but if you can do better you definitely won't regret putting in the effort. i totally slacked off my first 2.5-3 years of undergrad and i've paid the price, some opportunities that would have been there had i really worked hard now won't be.

you're at a critical point in your life, you need to put a stop to unhealty behaviors as soon as you spot them, because if you make a habit out of "doing what you feel like" 90% of the time and "doing what you absolutely have to" 10% of the time like i did for my first few years, you might wake up someday and wonder why your life sucks.

PM me if you have any questions.

[DoubleClutch]

Dear Germane,

I too share a similar situation, being a student/rec. player myself. When I first recognized the addictive tendencies of my poker playing, such as staying up far too late, I quickly began trying to put my life into perspective. I found, as you will to, that these are some of the most important times in your life. Poker will always be here, your current opportunities may not.

…Now seems an appropriate time for a Al Schoonmaker quote :

“As a former professor, I can only applaud your decision to emphasize study.

I am appalled at students who spend excessive amounts of time playing poker. The grades you get are IMMEASURABLY more important than any money you can win.”

This advice seems very applicable to your current situation, as you believe you took a .5 GPA drop due to your addiction. I don’t know how much that will hurt you in the long run, but it’s simply unacceptable (especially for a UofM student).

I hope these responses (excluding Reid’s) helped.
Good Luck.

[mosquito]

Being expert at any game requires a dedication that
tends to exclude anything else.

Like school.

Relationships and normal life.

You get the point.

Best of luck......

[jon_keck]

[ QUOTE ]
My problem is that I am nowhere close to poker nirvana.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that if you strive for balance, you'll find that the enthusiasm you have for playing poker will carry over into all the things you do. Then you'll really enjoy playing more.

At least that's kinda how it applies to me and how I try to keep perspective on things. Although my problem isn't time spent on tables so much as it is time spent studying & thinking about playing.

[Larimani]

I've heard this before... oh [censored]!, it's me! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Germane]

Actually, I chose my wording carefully. I don't think I took a .5 GPA hit due to poker, I think if I could somehow use all the hours that I spend on poker in school, I would have a .5 higher GPA. Even when I didn't play poker, that didn't happen. My grades last term were the best I've had so far, but if I could somehow transfer poker effort into them (take a poker class?) then they would be better.