Anybody fold a full house on the flop? 1st hand of tourney?

Guy F · #1 01-14-2005, 03:35 PM

It's been a week and I'm still waffling on whether this was grotesquely stupid on my part or just bad luck. The setting is a $60 NLHE B&M tourney with 300 people. A month earlier I'd finished 12th in the same event (not a monthly tourney, there's 3 a week but I was on vacation both times). I didn't know anyone there.

First hand of the tourney, blinds are 25/50 and we start with t1000. I'm in MP with 88. I limp hoping to get a cheap flop and hit my set. LP player also limps, SB folds and BB checks. Here comes the fun!

Flop is JJJ. I'm not hearing "show tunes" in my head, but Deep Purple's "Highway Star" did come to mind :-). BB checks, I bet t200, LP calls, BB folds. Heads up with LP now. Turn is a blank, I toss in t500 feeling pretty good about my chances to double up out of the gate. LP thinks for maybe 30 seconds and then raises me all in. I'm now thinking mine may not be the only pocket pair, but it's not clear to me that I'm beat. LP could have a smaller pair or even AK (or, of course the case J).

With over half my stack invested already I can't very well give up on it now. So I call and he turns over kings for a bigger boat and I'm out on the first hand. Sure, it's at least partly bad luck, but how do I fold a full house against a guy who limped preflop? Overbetting the pot on the flop might have given me more info, but after realizing he's got a PP too it's still 50/50 whether his pair is better than mine.

Does anyone fold this, or is there another way to not go broke and leave enough chips to at least let me wait for a hand to try to double up on and get back in it?

ZootMurph · #2 01-14-2005, 03:52 PM

You CAN 'not go broke' on this hand... fold when the guy tells you that he has you beat. He pushes all his chips. He's pretty confident. You have a whole tournament to get better situations to push in all your chips than this one.

bigmac366 · #3 01-14-2005, 03:56 PM

considering they only start you with 20x the BB in chips and half your stack was already in, i think you have to call.

DougShrapnel · #4 01-14-2005, 03:57 PM

As soon as you bet that 200 and are called you should be done with this one. Perhaps even 100 would have done the trick. 1/2 the pot on a bluff that has a chance to be a slim value bet. That way you don't risk so much. Honestly if you hit the jack are you betting the flop? Like alot of players you are checking, and trying to trap. So your 200 says I have anything but a Jack.

If you have to see a showdown check the flop/ bet your 200 on the turn and check the river.

But calling an all-in is pretty bad, without a good read.

iRoD · #5 01-14-2005, 03:59 PM

I think you can lay this down here too, this is obviously a very strangely played KK but you probably did not have to play this hand so strongly. The flop bet is pretty okay, but I dont know if you have to toss in over half your stack on the turn.

Does anyone else think that these blinds (25/50) are pretty high for the first level of a multi with stacks of only t1000?

Pat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

DougShrapnel · #6 01-14-2005, 04:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone else think that these blinds (25/50) are pretty high for the first level of a multi with stacks of only t1000?

[/ QUOTE ] Perhaps that is why he played the KK like he did.

mcteecho · #7 01-14-2005, 04:20 PM

I wouldn't really think of it as playing a full house, b/c the other guy has at least JJJ too - you're really just playing your mid pocket pair. Is it worth going broke on the first hand with pocket 8s? Not for me.

TeenerBall · #8 01-14-2005, 04:29 PM

Did the dealer do a once-through shuffle, or what? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

SossMan · #9 01-14-2005, 05:09 PM

A) this structure is horrible
B) you can bet out smaller on the flop and accomplish the same thing
C) you are PCd when you bet out t500 again on the turn, and the call is very easy, but you are probably beat.

Guy F · #10 01-16-2005, 01:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't really think of it as playing a full house, b/c the other guy has at least JJJ too - you're really just playing your mid pocket pair. Is it worth going broke on the first hand with pocket 8s? Not for me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, this makes sense. I'm normally a "better safe than sorry" person early in tourneys, but I think I got caught up in the chance to double up early. Viewing it as pair-vs-pair instead brings it down a few notches in excitement and makes position more important.

Someone else made the point that a true big hand would play to trap, not bet right out. The stars in my eyes must have blinded me to this as well since it's so obvious in hindsight now. Might have been better off planning to checkraise a modest amount, and stop to ponder what was going on if he either bet big or checked behind me. More information either way and fewer chips in the pot.