KK- when to lay it down?

BellyBuster7 · #1 01-15-2005, 12:49 PM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero caps, Button calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (8.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

Considering Button 3-bet preflop, and raises the flop, it's not hard to put him on an Ace. I can never seem to get rid of hands like this, when do I lay it down?

Entity · #2 01-15-2005, 12:52 PM

If Button is straightforward (won't raise QQ on the flop), you can fold to the flop raise. Against most players I'd just fold there.

Rob

tiltaholic · #3 01-15-2005, 12:59 PM

title your post in a way that doesn't suggest that villian had an ace, or that you lost, and you will get more honest answers.

if he's a general passive party player, usually you won't see less than KK from him, in that case folding the turn unimproved is not bad. (but i think I'd 3-bet the flop) if he's a thinking player, he could be playing JJ or QQ this way too.

Wario · #4 01-15-2005, 01:03 PM

I would usually fold to the flop raise against most opponents.

It seems weak but meh, you're beat here so often.

Entity · #5 01-15-2005, 01:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
(but i think I'd 3-bet the flop)

[/ QUOTE ]
Why?

BellyBuster7 · #6 01-15-2005, 01:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
title your post in a way that doesn't suggest that villian had an ace, or that you lost, and you will get more honest answers.

if he's a general passive party player, usually you won't see less than KK from him, in that case folding the turn unimproved is not bad. (but i think I'd 3-bet the flop) if he's a thinking player, he could be playing JJ or QQ this way too.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right about the title stuff, I'll work on that. The thing is, I KNEW he had an Ace, but I called down anyway. I'm trying to learn when to get away from hands like these, painful as it is. Thanks tilt, you've been giving some good feedback on the hands I've been posting lately.

BellyBuster7 · #7 01-15-2005, 01:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would usually fold to the flop raise against most opponents.

It seems weak but meh, you're beat here so often.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's kind of how I'm thinking too. I'm trying to find a balance of not being too weak and getting run over, and not calling all my chips off with 2nd best hand. I never even though of 3-betting when that Ace hit.

tiltaholic · #8 01-15-2005, 01:28 PM

ent-

you know, thanks for pushing me on this one. i can't decide why i would 3-bet the flop or if it is right. i may have just been reacting to the fatalistic tone of the post, ie, i have kings, so of course an ace flops and villian has an ace...but against a typical party opponent, i think he's holding an ace vastly more often than not. i don't think i could bring myself to fold to the flop raise though. would you really fold to an unknown opponent?
-t

Entity · #9 01-15-2005, 01:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ent-

you know, thanks for pushing me on this one. i can't decide why i would 3-bet the flop or if it is right. i may have just been reacting to the fatalistic tone of the post, ie, i have kings, so of course an ace flops and villian has an ace...but against a typical party opponent, i think he's holding an ace vastly more often than not. i don't think i could bring myself to fold to the flop raise though. would you really fold to an unknown opponent?
-t

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll often make a loose call to the flop raise and fold the turn, but it depends on the player. If I don't think they'll pick up on the fact that I bet-fold quite often, then I'm ok folding to the flop raise.

Rob

tiltaholic · #10 01-15-2005, 01:47 PM

yes, my primary reason not to fold is so they won't take shots at me if they notice....it always feels like a loose call.

i officially retract my flop 3-bet.

thanks for reining me in.