common flop situation, bet or c/r? or check call?

BK_ · #1 01-14-2005, 01:11 PM

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, MP folds, CO raises, Button folds, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets, SB folds, Hero raises, CO calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets.

Final Pot: 6 BB

betting or c/r is nice because i at least have some folding equity here. which has more? does check calling the flop make me more money post flop when i hit? betting freezes out the sb when the pfr raises me.. but so i want that? c/r will keep in the sb for 2 bets a decent portion of the time, increasing my implied odds. explanations please! thanks

Freakin · #2 01-14-2005, 02:47 PM

I'd play the same. If you're club hits, a check/raise is unlikely to work, so you'll get the same 1BB out of villian, or 0BB if you try and fail at a c/r. By raising the flop you're getting some money in there and along with your folding equity I think is enough to warrant the raise. IMO, you absolutely want to check the flop. This has the best chance of keeping SB in teh hand. If you lead and CO raises, SB is more likely to fold for 2 cold. Ideally, CO bets, SB calls, and you can pop them up w/ your 35% equity.

The way the action played out, I think I woudl typically check/call teh flop and lead the turn, not estimating much folding equity against the PFR on teh flop. I like the way you played it, but maybe I'm just being influenced by the fact that you hit on the turn.

Freakin

K C · #3 01-14-2005, 02:59 PM

I'm not crazy about the c/r on the flop unless you felt that this had a decent chance of taking it down. Typical players won't fold here though, and even if you put a scare into them, like you may have done with this fellow, for whatever reason they tend to see another card.

Your chances of getting a call on the turn are lessened by your move on the flop plus another club on the turn. Your only real hope is that he has a high club, which is unlikely.

I'd perfer to check the flop here, call, then do my c/r on the river. The opponent may sense weakness and try to take it down. Even if you don't get the call here, you're still ahead a bet, as long as your opponent isn't very passive and the type to check the turn. And, even if he does, you've got a good shot at betting it out on the river and getting a call there.

KC
http://kingcobrapoker.com

BK_ · #4 01-14-2005, 03:54 PM

thanks, great post. i agree entirely on your reasons to check instead of betting. had the sb not been involved, then maybe its a different story

BK_ · #5 01-14-2005, 03:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not crazy about the c/r on the flop unless you felt that this had a decent chance of taking it down. Typical players won't fold here though, and even if you put a scare into them, like you may have done with this fellow, for whatever reason they tend to see another card.

Your chances of getting a call on the turn are lessened by your move on the flop plus another club on the turn. Your only real hope is that he has a high club, which is unlikely.

I'd perfer to check the flop here, call, then do my c/r on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont think the preflop raiser bets the river enough for a c/r line to be great. he probably doesnt even has a pair when he bets this flop, much less a flush draw. if he does have a flush, another line is better anyways