flopped middle set and turned boat... agressive enough??

Randal · #1 01-12-2005, 03:55 PM

Surprisingly agressive Bad Beat Jackpot table, espcially with the Jackpot over $400k right now. Table is still fairly loose, VPIP was just under 40 and PFR was around 10 if I remember correctly. I dont know if I played this agressively enough, any thoughts on my play...

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP3 caps, Button calls, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (11.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls, Button 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

River: (23.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, MP3 raises, Button folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 29.75 BB

cjx · #2 01-12-2005, 04:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I dont know if I played this agressively enough, any thoughts on my play...

[/ QUOTE ]

You didn't. What hands beat you? Very few. What hands might play aggressive like that? Very many. Raise it up.

cjx

RichHarden · #3 01-12-2005, 04:08 PM

Cap the turn, raise the river, call any further reraises. You're best here most of the time.

Chuckles1248 · #4 01-12-2005, 04:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You didn't. What hands beat you? Very few. What hands might play aggressive like that? Very many. Raise it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Q7, Q4, and Q3 come to mind, most specifically Q7 and Q3, given how the betting went Bet, Raise, 3-Bet, Cap from 4 different people on the flop, I would put one of them on at least top 2, but maybe the table is really super aggressive. The way the action unfolded, I think you slowed down at about the right time, fearing flopped two pair and turned bigger boat.

maxpowers21 · #5 01-12-2005, 04:20 PM

easy cap on the turn.

Most likely you are up agaisnt trip queens and/or a flush. You are losing bets by not capping the turn, i would also raise the river and only slow down if i was re-raised on the river after i capped the turn.

cjx · #6 01-12-2005, 04:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Q7, Q4, and Q3 come to mind

[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly the reason to RAISE! That's 3 measily hands plus QQ. Q7 means all four sevens are in play, QQ puts up quad queens, and Q3 is an awfully raggedy hand and you think Q4 got there? Don't see monsters. If this is a loser so be it, RAISE.

Hands that might play against you like this ANY Queen, any flush draw (there are two on the turn), some particularly stubborn overpairs, and pocket 3's.

cjx

Chuckles1248 · #7 01-12-2005, 04:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Exactly the reason to RAISE! That's 3 measily hands plus QQ. Q7 means all four sevens are in play, QQ puts up quad queens, and Q3 is an awfully raggedy hand and you think Q4 got there? Don't see monsters. If this is a loser so be it, RAISE.

Hands that might play against you like this ANY Queen, any flush draw (there are two on the turn), some particularly stubborn overpairs, and pocket 3's.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess, I'm just forced to believe that when 4 people like their hands enough to bet, raise, 3-bet and cap, at least one of them has something better than top pair or bottom two. I suppose, depending on the players, they could be capping the flop with a flush draw, but I'm not convinced.

I wasn't trying to say that there were a lot of hands that can beat you or that they were probable given the board, I was saying that the range of hands the people can have is narrowed quite a bit by the action on the flop.

Sure there were 2 flush draws on the turn, but unless you're against total maniacs, they don't cap the flop with a runner runner flush draw, so I don't think the diamond draw made it, but it's possible.

Last, overpairs are unlikely given the lack of preflop action. I suppose they could be slowplaying them, but he said the table was pretty aggressive, so I doubt that people would try to limp in with AA or KK.

I could be completely off-base here, though, so I dunno.

cjx · #8 01-12-2005, 05:26 PM

Alright, I went back and had a look. I still disagree with you, but I've come a little bit to your camp. In the end I still think he slowed down too soon.

If I had to take a guess I'd put UTG on 33, MP3 Qx(likely AQ, KQ, QJ, QT) and Button on AK (almost any two hearts, but let's be optomistic about his play) hearts. Let's have us some results!

cjx

PokerBob · #9 01-12-2005, 05:37 PM

Maybe I'm nuts, but I like going for the overcall on the river as opposed to raising, but........when MP3 raises the river, you MUSTMUSTMUSTMUST 3-bet this for value? You are seeing a monster under the bed here. What beats you? QQ, Q3,Q4 and Q7. You wimped out here.

MoreWineII · #10 01-12-2005, 05:41 PM

Cap the turn at the *very* least.