How do I get value here, flopped set turns into quads ...

[jhall23]

This was an odd hand I played last night. Villian in this hand was TAGging it as was I. I don't know about the min-raise PF seems like it was too small for a steal.

He is agressive post flop as well so I saw his bets as weak. The problem is I flopped a huge hand that got bigger on the turn. I was thinking any raise on the flop or turn would push him off the hand. Then I tried for the overbet on the River for a change hoping he was drawing to a flush or would read it as a bluff. If felt the situation didn't seem good to get money from villian anywhere which is of course frustrating with a huge hand.

Comments on all streets appreciated.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter

Button ($27.22)
Hero ($28.6)
BB ($22.9)
UTG ($24.5)
UTG+1 ($21)
UTG+2 ($30.74)
MP1 ($18.85)
MP2 ($10.75)
MP3 ($24.05)
CO ($61.45)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $1</font>, Hero (poster) calls $0.75, BB calls $0.50.

Flop: ($3) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $1</font>, Hero calls $1, BB folds.

Turn: ($5) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $1</font>, Hero calls $1.

River: ($7) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $10</font>, Button folds.

Final Pot: $17

[MediaPA]

Honestly, your best chance to get money was on the flop. No one would put you on the set. Top pair will most likely pay you. The Turn hurt your hand actually. And the river killed it. Sorry, sometimes happens with big hands.

[Kaz The Original]

Bet out on the flop, you'll be surprised how many times you get raised.

[jhall23]

Upon review I'd say you guys are right and I should have bet out the flop. Then if he has anything he may possibly call and I am in good shape as the pot would be bigger and more tempting to call further bets.

I often will bet out at sets on the flop but at the time was just thinking that he would fold which may have been the case after the fact seeing the weak bets.

[Zangief]

What about trying to sell it on the river? He's not going to call $10, unless he has the flush. But if you bet, say, $1 or $2, he might call with just a K. Also, if he *did* make the flush, he might interpret the small bet as weakness and raise you.

Anyone think this would work?

[DrPublo]

I had the same problem yesterday, where I actually flopped quad 7s on the button and made a lousy $6 out of it or something.

I was thinking more about these types of problems and I concluded that hands like this are almost immaterial to your win rate. The classic example is from SSH: imagine a player who has a very peculiar leak in his game. Every time he makes a royal flush, he checks and folds. Of course its a catestropic error, but at most it costs him a few bets a year, where as he might be making less costly errors, but errors all the same, hundreds or thousands of times a year.

I think the same logic applies here. You should focus more on extracting maxiumum value from your one pair and two pair hands--the hands you make all the time--and less about how to squeak an extra few bucks out of a monster where you have the deck crippled. In the long term its the every day hands that affect your win rate, not the monsters.

As far back as I can remember, there are only two times when I've been paid off with closed quads. One was where I had quads on the turn with JJ and an opponent who had played KK passively all the way spiked a K on the river (hello monster pot) and another is where the board was double paired QQ33x or something, I had 33 and my opponent had a naked Q. Other than that just try and sell it for what you can get.

The Doc

[kurto]

If I may share a beat... The only way to maximize quads is if the board perfectly matches another player.

I once raised preflop with pocket Aces. Everyone folds but this one guy who had pocket 6s. The flop comes A 6 6 rainbow. I make a small bet thinking the guy's going to fold and let's see if I can make a little money off this hand. He calls. I bet the turn, he reraises me and, I of course laugh to myself and go all-in. (Let me also say I had never actually seen quads yet in my poker life). I couldn't for the life of me imagine (at that time) what the person could possibly have.

When the shoe's been on the other foot... for instance, Ive flopped a straight flush... all you can do is check and hope someone hits and takes a stab at it.

[JasonK]

I would have checked the river and hoped he either had the flush or would bluff that he had it.