Brantford 10/20 hand

[chief444]

OK then, what are you giving him for odds since you say the odds aren't so bad even if he has to call a raise behind him? I do buy the passive game argument since it makes a check/raise unlikely. But the game was described as only "loose with spots of weird aggression".

[Ian M.]

Hi chief444, notice that the flop was checked to MP and bet, and called in a few places before it got to the hero...so the odds were actually around 16/17-1 by the time it got back to our player. This is more than enough to call with a gutshot in this spot, not even considering the extra bets that will be won on the turn and river if he makes his straight. If you hit one of your outs that may not be clean, like what happened here, you're just going to have to play poker and hope for the best.

Ian

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]
OK then, what are you giving him for odds since you say the odds aren't so bad even if he has to call a raise behind him? I do buy the passive game argument since it makes a check/raise unlikely. But the game was described as only "loose with spots of weird aggression".

[/ QUOTE ]

if he has to call a raise he'll be getting something around 20 to 2. that may not be quite enough if he KNOWS it's going to be raised, but even then it's close. more often than not, it won't get raised and he'll be getting more than sufficient pot odds on for 3 outs, when he may have 4 clean outs. and that's not even considering implied odds.

[chief444]

I wouldn't really count on implied odds much with a hand like this because there is a good chance there are a fair amount of redraws out there so this could work for or against you.

I'm really not trying to say the call was a mistake. Just trying to say that it was marginal. It was definitely not as clear cut as you say.

[chief444]

He was not closing the action and Avatar didn't say who called and who folded. There were two players behind him.

[Avatar]

I decide to check the turn. A Semi Loose/Semi Passive UTG bets, and it is now folded to me.

I felt these were one of those way ahead or way behind situations (except for those times he's on a big heart draw), so I choose to call with the intention of betting a river non heart and calling a raise.

Yay or nay?

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]
I decide to check the turn. A Semi Loose/Semi Passive UTG bets, and it is now folded to me.

I felt these were one of those way ahead or way behind situations (except for those times he's on a big heart draw), so I choose to call with the intention of betting a river non heart and calling a raise.

Yay or nay?

[/ QUOTE ]

if you intend to put 3 bets in against a flush anyway, i don't see any reason not to bet the turn. you don't want it to get checked around. call a raise on the turn and check/call the river.

if you bet the turn and its 2 bets back to you, you can fold.