Hand to Talk About

[imported_stealthcow]

would someone who has you beat on this kindof flop play the hand this way? it seems like he isn't getting much money in the pot considering he knows you had a good hand to start and probably caught some of it.

more likely he was trying to keep the pot small by not betting out with his weak ace, and on the turn/river is hoping his Axs holds out against a KK or QQ.


i like raising the turn here. it lets you know where you're at in the hand, and should let you know exactly what he has. and unless he stop and goes on the river again, it costs teh same as the way you played it

[LarsVegas]

That is far from clear cut. Actually, I think players who need a full to raise the river on a board with no flush or straight possibilities, are often the most likely to get called on a river raise in other pots.

Given that they indeed bluff a small fraction of the time, the thinking from the opponent should be, "he either needs a full to raise me - for value - or he is bluffing". I don't think anybody needs telling that boats are mathematically hard to come by.

[BarronVangorToth]

[ QUOTE ]
Next time his opponent has a marginal hand on the river and Mason is strong, he will still value bet knowing that Mason won't raise him without the nuts.

Of course, next time Mason is heads up on the river, he may be able to bluff-raise the river. When his opponent has a good but not exceptional hand, he may let go knowing that last time Mason didn't even raise with top trips top kicker. If he's raising this time, he must have a monster.

Mason is giving up one BB here to steal 5+ next time.

Perhaps?

[/ QUOTE ]


Amazing post. Normally, most players aren't paying attention enough to remember anything -- but given the stakes and that it's Mason, and therefore apt to be memorable for the villain, I can see how this play can seed some longterm doubt and be +EV.

Given John X against Bob Y, I'd still recommend Bob Y popping the river.

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi shaundeeb:

I probably should have stated this. The player was someone I didn't know but he seemed to be a little too loose and on the aggressive side. That makes him typical for this game.

best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Sqred:

I don't know at what level you play at, but at this level the players tend to be a little better. So if he had a jack I'm not so sure he would call. However, I do agree that if you can be very sure that a jack is where he's at, then a river raise is correct.

best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi cash:

What are your reasons for making that raise?

Best wishes,
Mason

[sfer]

I'd prefer that most opponents value bet me less, since I'm much more likely to have marginal hands than monsters on the river.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi shaundeeb:

Since a second ace hit the board, it's now less likely that I'm holding an ace and more likely I have a big pair. If my opponent has three aces and checks the turn, I might take a free card. Now I have a free chance to beat him.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Aaron Harsh]

Well, I don't like raising the turn here because unless you are in Party's 15/30 you won't get unlimited action from AX. You might even see a good laydown by the BB in the hand, if the perception is of a tight tough player raising or if the BB is just trying to buy the pot.

However, the river bet is the only one that could have been raised IMO. I think the BB would play AX, JJ, AJ or even 22 the exact way it is set up here, and while I believe a raise on the river is probably the correct play for me, I see nothing wrong with the conservative play of possibly sacrificing 1 big bet as opposed to the potential of losing 2 more big bets. I guess I would have raised the river and called the reraise, but that's why I play $15/$30 and not $80/$160.

[James282]

The fact that this post got so many replies(and the nature of them) is a pretty good indicator of the direction that the forum is heading. If this was made by some guy as his first post, he would have gotten maybe 1 response saying "raise the turn or the river" and then it would have went off into oblivion. But because Mason's little brother or Mat Sklanksy or somebody decided to post a hand under Mason's name, a routine hand that was played badly turns into the most replied to hand of the week.
-James