Playing QQ with a scary board

nnoobi · #1 01-10-2005, 12:43 PM

My first hand post - let me have it. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Button is VP$IP 70%+ and passive. Others seems typical passive.

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls $1 (All-In), BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players, 1 all-in)
UTG checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds, Button calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players, 1 all-in)
UTG checks, Hero bets, Button calls, UTG folds.

River: (8.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

I'm looking for what actions to take on the River.
1. Bet and call raise
2. Bet and fold raise
3. Check and call
4. Check and fold

Any suggestions? General strategies for these positions? Problems with other streets?

rabbit

pstripling · #2 01-10-2005, 12:52 PM

I like your play on every street. I would check call the river. I think the button is going to passively call with any ace, king, or ten. He might raise a flush, or something like A7s. More often than not I think you are behind and I think he will check a winning hand behind you figuring you for something like AK, AQ and afraid of the straight or flush.

mack848 · #3 01-10-2005, 12:57 PM

This is happening to me a lot recently.

I raise pf with KK or QQ and get a couple of fishy callers.

An Ace on the flop, I get passively called down and shown A7.

I know they are supposed to play the same way when they hit second pair, but they love any Ace.

Wish I knew the answer.

CPA · #4 01-10-2005, 01:28 PM

Would anybody check the turn and see what happens from there? With 4 players on the turn (plus one all in), isn't it likely that somebody has an Ace or King since they called a raise preflop?

If it is checked around, I think I would bet out on the river. If it is bet and called on the turn, I may let it go.

Weak Tight?? If so, Why?

chief444 · #5 01-10-2005, 01:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Would anybody check the turn and see what happens from there? With 4 players on the turn (plus one all in), isn't it likely that somebody has an Ace or King since they called a raise preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with checking the turn after being called in two places on the flop with a fairly drawless board and a second overcard falling.

There's no way I'm betting the river.

Fat Nicky · #6 01-10-2005, 01:35 PM

I think this is perfect.

spydog · #7 01-10-2005, 01:43 PM

I think it's a cointoss between bet/fold and check/folding. Bet/call would be horrible against an LP. Check/call would be horrible against an LP.

spydog · #8 01-10-2005, 01:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Would anybody check the turn and see what happens from there? With 4 players on the turn (plus one all in), isn't it likely that somebody has an Ace or King since they called a raise preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with checking the turn after being called in two places on the flop with a fairly drawless board and a second overcard falling.

There's no way I'm betting the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind that Hero is now HU in a separate sidepot with an LP. Would you still check the river? If so, would you fold/call a bet?

chief444 · #9 01-10-2005, 01:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Keep in mind that Hero is now HU in a separate sidepot with an LP. Would you still check the river? If so, would you fold/call a bet?

[/ QUOTE ]
The fact that there is a side pot here is practically meaningless because the SB was all in preflop for 1/4 BB. I would probably check/call the river but I think it's close between calling and folding. Checking the turn would have changed things quite a bit.

StellarWind · #10 01-10-2005, 01:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Button is VP$IP 70%+ and passive. Others seems typical passive.

[/ QUOTE ]
There is your answer. Check the turn. You certainly may have the best hand but you probably don't. Betting the turn does not offer value against two opponents. It is also most unlikely to protect your hand from the river card, which requires:

1. You are currently ahead (not so likely).

2. Someone must have outs against your hand. What else can happen? Most of the bad cards are already on the board or in your hand.

3. They need to fold for one bet. Most of the remaining draws won't. Certainly not a flush and probably not a gutshot. Plus SB is all-in.

All of this might be null and void against a normal button who will probably bet if you check. But this button will probably give you a free card if you ask nicely. Even if he does bet you can safely take a card and checkfold the river when you don't improve.

Checking either avoids a negative value bet on the turn or provides you with the information you need to safely fold the river when you are beat. Save your money.

Obviously checking is also good if it avoids a checkraise with six outs in your hand.

On the actual river I would check and either fold or call depending on my exact read. Betting is definitely out because you will get many more free showdowns with the losing hand than calls from worse hands.