Push Flop with OESD and middle pair?

[Pat Southern]

I was multi-tabling on the bad beat tables when this hand came up, so I didn't have any reads. I was hoping the button would bet smaller, to increase my folding equity, looking back I think I should have led out.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (10 handed) converter

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

UTG+1 (t7761)
UTG+2 (t2450)
MP1 (t3703)
MP2 (t2445)
MP3 (t6069)
<font color="#C00000">CO (t4178)</font>
Button (t9965)
SB (t4270)
<font color="#C00000">Hero (t2915)</font>
UTG (t5240)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls t200, MP1 calls t200, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to t400</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls t200, UTG+2 calls t200, MP1 calls t200.

Flop: (t1700) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets t1500</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t2515 (All-In)</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, CO calls t1015.

Turn: (t6730) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t6730) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t6730
<font color="#009B00">Main Pot: t6730 (t6730), between CO and Hero.</font>

[zaxx19]

The point of a semi bluff is to have some folding equity isnt it..clearly there was non here. The problem is with the Flush draw alot of your outs could be dead(Im not saying they are..)...I m mucking quickly..

[dr_zorba]

I have to say your actions did not occur to me.

After such a wonderful Flop for the Blinds in a 4-way Pot, I cannot fathom the initial Check. This is the type of Flop that hits a Blind very hard and leading out lets you discover right away at little cost if somebody has a big hand.
The ALLin C/R seems (to lesser players such as myself) rather obscure, even mysterious. Do you have a special fondness for a pair of sevens?

[Pat Southern]

[ QUOTE ]
The point of a semi bluff is to have some folding equity isnt it..clearly there was non here. The problem is with the Flush draw alot of your outs could be dead(Im not saying they are..)...I m mucking quickly..

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you honestly put the preflop raiser on a flush draw? Even if you do, I'm ahead of a flush draw, because I have a pair. The only legitamite hand I'm afraid of here is a set, which is unlikely from the preflop raiser. The range of hands I believe he could possibly have was an overpair, or possibly AK. The only time I wouldnt have pot equity was if somebody else woke up with a set. I wasnt making the play specifically for folding equity, because I had pot equity as well. However, I dont like how I played it because I think betting out could accomplish one of two things: 1. increase folding equity 2. Trap somebody else in between me and the preflop raiser, because my hand likes multiway action.

[zaxx19]

Well AKh or KQh is 50-50 here with you isnt it?? You are 43% versus AA/KK/QQ if one is a heart. JJ or 1010 has you in really bad shape if one is a heart. 99 has yu killed with or without a heart..I mean I guess what you are saying here is he is on a complete bluff here?? Im just not quite sure what you are reading him for having that would make yu feel like you are way out in front here??

[Pat Southern]

You dont always have to be 50% or better favorite to make a play worth it. The pot is pretty big because of the preflop action. This allows you to have pot equity, despite being a slight underdog.

[zaxx19]

Yeah I think we all understand pot odds...

But, you said you were only afraid of a set. Im usually "afraid" of any hand that can bust me more than half the time if I have nill folding equity as you do here. Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by "afraid". Im not saying the play was necessarily horrible or even incorrect just that you will be behind most times...and horribly so sometimes.

[JohnG]

Given the ratios and the nature of my hand, along with other info, I'd probably bet allin rather than check the flop. It makes it very tough to call for the 2 players in between me and the preflop raiser. The preflop raiser has no defence against an allin bet by my hand. I can't be far behind even if beat, and they may well fold.

[Pat Southern]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah I think we all understand pot odds...


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure you do, because you earlier said this is an easy fold, and that you dont like making plays that will bust you X% of the time. I really didn't think the main question on this post would be getting the money in, I thought it would be HOW to get the money in.

[zaxx19]

Yes, I would muck...in the games I play. I have commented several times that in MTT and STT games there are times i act out of step with pure pot odds considerations ...lets not open that can of worms again....