KQo UTG

sublime · #1 01-05-2005, 04:40 PM

foxwoods 20/40 game. i just moved into this game within the past 30-40 minutes from the must move. table is typical foxwoods. couple of feeders, and some local weak/tights mixed in with average players.

9 haned
i have K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] UTG and raise. all fold to the button(loose, seen him raise from EP a few times and not see his cards. i have seen him in this game before, so hes not blackjack player killing time) who calls. bb calls also (one of those players who seems to loosen up more, the longer he plays, he is not good postflop)

flop is:

K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

bb checks, i bet, button raises, BB calls two, i 3-bet, button caps and bb folds.

HU on the turn with 8bbs in pot (before rake)

turn is J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

i check, button bets. what do i do?

Nightwish · #2 01-05-2005, 04:43 PM

Call.

tipperdog · #3 01-05-2005, 05:22 PM

Fold. Seems to me that every hand he might reasonably have leaves you with 2-4 outs. AK, AQ, JJ, TT--they all have you buried. At best, he might have K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and has a freeroll against you. I can't see a normal player pushing a garden variety flush draw to this extent on a board so likely to have connected with a pre-flop raiser. What reasonable hands do you beat at this point?

BarronVangorToth · #4 01-05-2005, 05:28 PM

You're dead.

The ONLY hand he MIGHT have is the ol' Q-J (sooted!) that many in that game will call with position. I don't see anyone acting like this, though, with the QJ-s.

ANY hand he has ... you can't beat, and are playing for the straight, which could be a chop (or, worse, if it's the 9 -- he could still rape you with AQ).

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com

Klepton · #5 01-05-2005, 05:30 PM

i think you can call and fold unimproved on the river. however, if you do improve, i think you should bet out and call a raise.

Luke · #6 01-05-2005, 05:32 PM

You have to at least call the turn given your straight and full house outs. Checkraising is stupid as it accomplishes nothing - folding worse hands and getting 3-bet by better hands - so calling is best.

On the river you should give some really strong consideration to folding if you don't improve. This is assuming he is not Party 15 aggresive (which I didn't really sense from your description).

Luke

tipperdog · #7 01-05-2005, 05:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i think you can call and fold unimproved on the river. however, if you do improve, i think you should bet out and call a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

And what, pray tell, does "improve" mean in this context. If the Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] hits the board, giving our hero 2-pair on a 4-straight, 3-flush, paired board, you think he should lead out and call a river raise?

BarronVangorToth · #8 01-05-2005, 05:48 PM

The only improvement that MIGHT work is the K -- and you're still worried about AK or, more likely, even KJ.

That board is an absolute KQ disaster, especially given the action of the villain.

I hate the weak-tight fold line in general, but here, I think it's warranted.

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com

Wheezl · #9 01-05-2005, 07:17 PM

And check/call river unimproved right?

Wheezl · #10 01-05-2005, 07:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The ONLY hand he MIGHT have is the ol' Q-J (sooted!) that many in that game will call with position. I don't see anyone acting like this, though, with the QJ-s.

[/ QUOTE ]

You dont think that K10 or any other hand is possible? He said in the description that he is LOOSE. Just because the hands YOU would have in that spot has our hero in trouble, doesnt mean that THIS guy has one of those hands. Granted, the flop action is scary, but I dont think you can fold here. I could definately see this flop action if he was on K10. The J just might have counterfieted him. Also, Kx clubs isnt out of the realm of possibility, even though it seems unlikely with that action.