Raising with king queen...

[bernie]

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you raise with KQ and AJ at a full table IF you don't realize that position is impt and that they have negitive expectations in those positions.

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This is a line of crap. You don't raise it IF all of a sudden you ignore the players you're facind and fear that all those players who've been coldcalling with just about anything will now only coldcall you with better hands than KQo. That the callingstations won't pay you off if they hit their hand with yours even though they've been paying off all session with 22 or any bottom pair to the river. If you don't think that the guy with Ax won't call to the turn for his 3 outer if you hit your hand as he's always done.

You guys give your opponents way too much credit for what they'd play against you. Or just for playing well behind you in general. Way too much. You're not playing against thinking/studying players here for the most part. Even then, these 2 hands are your bottom openers in that spot. Let them decide when you're opening with it. Maybe you're putting too much emphasis on what you're actually holding instead of what they think you will be holding. Compared to all the other openers you may raise here, how often are you really coming in with AJo or KQo? Not often.

I think alot of it is because many have trouble playing it out of position postflop but can't be honest enough with themselves to explore that. That's where the problem is.

The prime time I drop KQo and AJo is in maniac games where it will usually be capped before the flop. Then Im dumping it in EP if first in knowing it will be multiple bets, likely capped, to the flop.

Most games today, for the most part, just aren't that tough to worry about someone behind you when you hold these in EP.

b

[Mike]

I must have the luxury of playing in much looser games than you do. Some days I know without a doubt that if I am utg at least five more are going to call one bet and the BB will check it through.

This type of game makes position less important because draws become the power hand(s).

On the down side, what I am doing is tearing up my chip stack on draws because I no longer have that buffer of playing in position and minding my chip stack.

[Mike]

Well said!

[bernie]

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Compared to all the other openers you may raise here, how often are you really coming in with AJo or KQo? Not often.

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Say you raise KQo, and some dip coldcalls behind you with AJo/ATo. He's making a longterm mistake here in doing this unless he knows for sure you're only coming in with K high. There's no way he can ever be that sure. Even if he's a 'good/solid' player.(cardwise)

Yes, he has you beat 'this' hand preflop but how often given your range of hands will his hand be best? The great majority of time he will be facing a stronger hand than he's calling with. Given that, he's making a longterm mistake in coldcalling here even though he has you beat. Don't look at immediate gain/loss, but longterm. You could also make this argument for if he's coldcalling with AQo, but this pertains more to the 'fear' of someone having Ax behind you. That's on top of all the other 'any 2 suited'/'2 offsuit faces' crap that you'll see cold calling you.

Again, postflop play is the key to these hands.

b

[holdemfan]

Well said Bernie

[catamite]

Don't limp KQo out of position. Raise or fold. Always (almost). You give away too much of your hand strength (or lack thereof) by limping. Keep 'em guessing.

As to whether or not I would play KQo to begin with, it depends entirely on how the table is playing, how I have been playing, position, stack size, and blinds. In general, loosen up at a tight table, tighten up at a loose table.

[Mike]

"Don't limp KQo out of position. Raise or fold. Always (almost). You give away too much of your hand strength (or lack thereof) by limping. Keep 'em guessing."

I think making hard and fast rules like this is a detriment to our game? If I am on a soft passive table I may want to limp and call a lot hands because I wish to keep the game soft and passive, as I am more concerned with overall session results rather than maximizing wins per hand. This would be at a B&M game for example where I have the choice of one table to play at.

If I am on a tough table I may want to mix up the play of certain hands. In my experience marginal hands are the best to mix it up with because they are not the greatest hands to start with and they can easily be mucked. Again this would be at a B&M with limited table choice.

As for "...keep em guessing", they have to think first! lol

In general I agree with you, but we should not be so infexible in making rules.