River Rock Casino (Richmond, BC) Controversy

[The T.A.]

From RGP:

[ QUOTE ]
Subject: marked deck in casino poker room, Richmond BC Canada Sent: Jan 4 2005 12:42 AM
Author: mark budworth (mbudworth@shaw.ca) Post Options: Hide


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BEWARE OF CHEATING IN CANADA'S LARGEST POKER ROOM!

Below is a email I sent to the BC Gaming Policy and Enforcement Branch

Dear Sir

I was playing poker at the Richmond casino at approximately 7pm on Jan
3, 2005. I was playing at table P16, a $2/4 limit holdum game. I noticed
the cards were in poor condition and realized that I was able to
identify a card I had held previously just by looking at the back of the
card. I know it as Qd just by looking at the back of the card due to
wear markings. I mentioned this to the dealer and requested a change of
cards.

I examined the cards and very quickly noticed a pattern of "wear"
marking on high cards/ face cards. I was able to consistently look at
the back of a card and tell if it was a high card based on the "wear" on
the card. Many years ago I had an interest in card tricks and have "
marked " decks myself, therefore this was not difficult for me to see.

I noted this to the floor manager and asked to discuss the issue with a
manager. Casino staff consistently said that the marking were the result
of the automatic shuffling machine but this was not consistent with my
examination of the cards. High cards had a consistent trend of wear that
was not present on most low cards. I suspect a player had been using a
rough surface and had rubbed the cards to make these markings. This is a
very common form of cheating.

I spoke to the Casino Manager. His position was the cards were not
marked, that the wear on them was only the result of the shuffling
machines. He made this decision without having given the cards much
examination. I demonstrated to him and some of his staff that I could
identify high cards by looking only at the back of the cards. During my
ad hoc demonstration I was correct 12 times out of 15 times, identifying
high cards only looking at the wear patterns on the back of the cards.
The casino manager's response was that he didn't think that in a holdum
poker game marked cards would give anyone an advantage. I cant believed
a casino manger would say that to me ................ either he thinks I
am a fool or he should not be managing a poker room!

When I was talking to the casino manger his demeanor was quite gruff and
somewhat intimidating. His opening line to conversation was " so you
want to talk to me" and he had two young big tough looking security
staff standing looking at me in an intimidating manner. I am a soft
overweight "married with kids" 44 year old guy........................
I had the strong sense that they were trying to intimidate me into
forgetting about the incident. Frankly this is what angered me the most.
I thought they would be concerned about a marked deck being on their
poker table but they tried to make me feel like I'd offended "Tony
Soprano" and should forget about it.................... the casino
manager kept looking at me in an angry manner saying " so what do you
want"

I really don't like to be treated like a fool when I may have been
cheated and then bullied by a bunch of tough looking guys. Part of my
reason for wanting to make this as public as possible is people in the
gaming industry have a reputation for being a bit rough and I am a
little worried about possible repercussions of upsetting them. Don't
they have to answer to government agencies?

The casino manager continued to deny there was anything wrong with the
cards despite may demonstration. I asked if I could examine the cards
further and demonstrate to his satisfaction that the marking would give
a player an advantage. He told me " that's not going to happen" I asked
if I could put my initials on some of the marked cards to be sure they
were preserved. He refused with a "dismissive smirk" I am certain in my
heart that they will destroy those cards now as soon as possible.

Prior to my noticing the marked deck of cards we had some very unusual
behavior on table P16. One player "saw the flop" every time 15 times in
a row, raised pre flop 10 out of the 15 times and reprised 8 times. He
was doing this very aggressive play with what were often later to be
shown a quite weak cards (A5, J2). He was seated at position 5 and had
at least one friend at the table in seat 7. Please examine the video
tape from table P16 for a few hours prior to 7pm and see if a pattern of
suspicious behavior emerges. I do not want to accuse the young player in
question of being a cheat, he may just be a thrill seeking erratic kid
having fun. However having a marked deck on a table does raise a concern
worth review and his play was the most aggressive I have ever seen with
such weak cards...................... However I am willing to assume
that the cards could have been marked by another player earlier.

The casino did not express any interest in either investigating this
matter or acknowledging a problem may have existed. Casino staff and
management attitude was consistently denial and minimizing the issue
from everyone I spoke with. It was implied that I would not be welcome
in the poker room again and since they have a virtual monopoly on low
limit poker this would be something I regret.......................
however I really don't want to play in a room where cheating is given a
blind eye.

Does a casino have any duty to try and prevent cheating in a poker room?
I don't care about the $100 I lost in the poker game while we were
playing with a marked deck. In fact if the casino did offer to refund my
money I would ask that it be donated to charity. I only want to be
treated fairly in a non intimidating manner and be confident that gaming
in BC is managed with integrity.








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[/ QUOTE ]

I'm somewhat of a regular at the casino, and even though I haven't noticed any outward irregularities in the cards, this story is a bit alarming, to say the least.

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
Casino staff consistently said that the marking were the result
of the automatic shuffling machine but this was not consistent with my
examination of the cards. High cards had a consistent trend of wear that
was not present on most low cards. I suspect a player had been using a
rough surface and had rubbed the cards to make these markings. This is a
very common form of cheating.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate to bump this sort of item, but it is common for the face cards to wear out faster. I have never really known why; it has been suggested to me that haivng more ink makes them wear faster, but I don't know for sure. I do know that the high cards wear out faster; the casino in this case should keep fresh cards in play.

Randy Refeld

[steamboatin]

The ink should be the same on the backs.

Problem with a post like this, it could be sour grapes, the poster has 88 posts so I tend to give him some credibility.

I hope he follows up regarding responses from the gaming commission. Could make an interesting thread.

[The T.A.]

[ QUOTE ]
Problem with a post like this, it could be sour grapes, the poster has 88 posts so I tend to give him some credibility.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not the guy who e-mailed this to the BC Gaming Commission; I merely ran into the article at RGP.

However, I am a regular at River Rock, and have had numerous winning sessions at the lower limit tables, namely 2/4 and 4/8.

The guy who originally typed up this letter may merely be making a big thing out of nothing, but it is good to know someone's paying close attention.

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]

I hate to bump this sort of item, but it is common for the face cards to wear out faster. I have never really known why; it has been suggested to me that haivng more ink makes them wear faster, but I don't know for sure. I do know that the high cards wear out faster; the casino in this case should keep fresh cards in play.


[/ QUOTE ]

maybe it's because low cards hit the muck a lot faster than high cards.

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
The ink should be the same on the backs.

[/ QUOTE ]

The wear that I have seen on cards is the printing from the face of the cards starts to become visable on the back of the card over time. I have no way of knowing if this is what he saw, but this is soemthing that I have observed.

Randy Refeld

[shadow29]

Russ Georgiev would tell you that the floor is in on it...

[Decks]

Why would anyone bother marking cards at 2-4 limit? You hardly need to cheat to beat the low-limit tables at river rock.