Foxwoods NL tournament - All in with on a draw on the turn?

JTG51 · #1 09-19-2002, 02:56 AM

This hand isn't really spectacular, I'm just interested in some opinions.

We were down to 19 or 20 players with the top 10 getting paid. The blinds were 300-600 with an ante of 50.

I'm in the SB. My stack is about T4500 before posting. Middle of the road at my table.

UTG limps, a MP limps and everyone else folds. I get 4d5d. There's T2550 in the pot and I think the BB is unlikely to raise. I call the extra T300. I think it's an easy call, anyone disagree? By the way, my stack covers the other 3 in the hand.

Flop: Kh 8s 6d

To my surprise, it's checked around.

Turn: [Kh 8s 6d] 3c

That couldn't have helped anyone, except for me. I've got to bet, but I'm not sure how much. The pot is T2850 and I only have T3900 left. Anything close to a pot sized bet is going to be well over 50% of my stack. So, I go all in. Everyone folds and I win a nice sized pot.

Like I said, not a very exciting hand. There's a lot of times where I'm unsure what the appropriate amount to bet is, so I'm curious what everyone thinks about my thinking here. I didn't think anyone would call a decent sized bet so I'm not sure if I should have risked my whole stack, just in case.

Thanks

snowman · #2 09-19-2002, 08:09 AM

you played it correctly, I would bet here as would most others , the question is how much, you have everyone covered and a pot sized bet is most of your stack so all-in is correct. make them face a choice of all-in or fold>

ohkanada · #3 09-19-2002, 10:05 AM

I don't mind the play but it would be better if you also had a shot for a flush as well as the straight. If you get called you are in deep trouble.

Although you think the 3 won't help anyone, it is possible someone has 33. The BB could also have any hand so he could have 2 pair. Somebody could even be waiting with 66.

The fact you have everyone covered makes the play better because the opponents would have to call an all-in.

Ken Poklitar

Greg (FossilMan) · #4 09-19-2002, 10:22 AM

Good play. The only time it might be a mistake is if you've got a super-calling-station in the hand, or if one or more of the opponents are known to trap a lot.

Otherwise, this looks more like you attempted to check-raise the flop, and are betting the turn now that nobody took the bait on the flop. They are going to have a hard time calling with anything less than top pair. Basically, if anybody calls you, it should mean one of three things. They were trapping, they are foolhardy, or they can read you very well.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

#5 09-19-2002, 11:41 AM

I think if you're going to bet here, you either have to move all of your chips in, or enough to cover both of the players that are in the hand because you are at least making them go all-in. I'd prefer moving all in because it seems like if you leave yourself with 1050 instead of moving in, you look weak. I understand that this is a situation where you have everyone in the hand out-chipped, but if you didn't and you made a semi-bluff like that, I think it would be easy to pick off, especially if someone has a lot of chips. Plus, what do you do if someone comes over the top of you?? Are you going to fold and leave yourself with that few chips with 300-600 blinds and 50 antes?? You don't even have a full round left in that situation, so I imagine you'd have to call anyway. You might as well show some strength and move all-in on the turn here and if you get called, hope you hit one of your outs. I think my post sounds kind of negative, but it's not, I'm actually supporting the play you made, I'm just giving my reasons for doing the same thing had I been in your shoes! How did you end up doing in the tournament, by the way??

Gavin(usually post under the username 2005)

JTG51 · #6 09-19-2002, 01:18 PM

Ken, even though 33 is a very small chance, that did cross my mind. I really thought any of these three players would have moved all in with any pair preflop though, since they all had small stacks.

Similarly, I didn't think the BB had any pair on the flop. She had such a small stack I think she would have moved in on the flop.

JTG51 · #7 09-19-2002, 01:22 PM

Good point about the super calling station. There was one at my table, she wasn't in the hand though. In the second or third level of the tourney she called my all in on a flop of 5 4 3 rainbow. She had JTo. I decided then I wasn't making any moves against her. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

JTG51 · #8 09-19-2002, 01:27 PM

I was thinking most of the things that you wrote during the hand. I"m glad to see you agree with my thought process.

I finished 9th. Greg (fossil man) raised enough before the flop to cover my very small stack. I called with JJ. Someone else called with 99. There was an A on the flop and I was finished.

Greg (FossilMan) · #9 09-19-2002, 02:18 PM

Oops. One of those wrong play at the right time things. Nobody had entered the pot yet, and I had As9s and the chip lead. I made a standard raise, and got called by 2 hands that had me pretty dominated. But, I got lucky and caught the A. I hate having to suck out, no matter how often I do it.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

JTG51 · #10 09-19-2002, 02:28 PM

For what it's worth, I thought you played it well. I would have done the same thing.

Of course, I had a chance to put the worst beat ever on you when Juan dealt the 2h on the river before the turn action was completed. I wasn't really sure if I wanted to spike a J on my second try on the river. That's one beat that I would have felt pretty bad about.