Interesting turn C/R

[MicroBob]

Interesting discussion.
FWIW - I don't KNOW for fact that it's a 2+2'er....just somebody with the same name as one. I could send him a PM and ask if that's him but I really don't want to call him out on a hand that most of us agree was played kind of strangely from his side.

In fact, because it was played this way, I have definite doubts that it's the same person....but again, I just don't know.


It's possible I got passive here when I should have 3-bet.

But a C/R represents more than just me betting and him raising (if he had position on me).

It sure looked to me that if I 3-bet it that I would be very possibly facing a cap.
Doesn't waiting for the turn to pop the C/R here smell too much like a set to anyone else??


If it gets capped and he turns over 77 for a set then I certainly feel like a party LAG who's just spewing chips because my AA was so pretty.


The ideas that he might fold to my 3-bet anyway, whereas just calling can induce him to bet at it again, are valid I think...although I admit I didn't think THAT deeply about it in the hand itself.

I pretty much just said "oh crap...a tight player just C/R'ed and I'm pretty sure he's smart enough to have noticed that I had raised it UTG...guess i should just go into call-down mode here."
I'm overly simple that way.


I like the feedback though and it's given me some stuff to think about.

[rigoletto]

[ QUOTE ]
Give me a break. Only 3 players saw the flop and there is not a straight/flush out there. The only thing you are behind is some "weird 2 pair" - which is unlikely b/c you are playing against a "solid 2+2 player". If it got capped heads up would you have a probablem 3 betting the turn? Answer - definitely I don't see why this is any different. And this crap about him guaranteed folding turn just b/c he knows he is behind is BS and folding to a 4-bet - not a chance this is party poker - not live. This is called charging a player for his likely draw. If he capped it on the flop would you raise the turn? Yes. By just calling you are allowing him to "catch up" cheaper a large percentage of the time.....

[/ QUOTE ]

You must be the CEO of LAG Inc. You insist on 3 betting AND calling a cap + calling the river (not much sense callng a cap otherwise) in a pot where you are likely behind. If you really feel you have to call a cap on the turn then you should definately not 3-bet.

And BB capping the flop HU is very different. If BB had played it stronger on the flop I would put him on top pair most of the time and raise the turn. In this scenario it looks like the turn card helped him and his likely hands are 67, 77, 89, 45 or a bluff, 33, 66 are possible but more remote since he didn't c/r the flop.

[rigoletto]

[ QUOTE ]
I pretty much just said "oh crap...a tight player just C/R'ed and I'm pretty sure he's smart enough to have noticed that I had raised it UTG...guess i should just go into call-down mode here."
I'm overly simple that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, that's all you need.

[mplspoker]

Whatever dude, you have no clue. The only people who agree with just calling don't win at 15 on party and probably play much lower.

[mplspoker]

Don't take advice with this guy. it is obviously wrong. If you simply put the player on a huge hand every hand you will not be getting value out of your hands.

[rigoletto]

[ QUOTE ]
This is without question a situation where you were put on a hand (overcards) that you didn't have and he then checkraised you, to put you off the hand, and when you called the turn and he bet the river, I'm sure he thought his hand was good.


[/ QUOTE ]

Could you please teach me how to make that kind of read *sarcasm off*

[BobbyTheG]

I totally agree that if you didn't post the results, the messages would be different. A few thoughts...1) mplspoker posted that you could only put him on a "weird two pair". I think that's goofy. You are most afraid of a set and that is what he is representing with that board. 2) I like how you played it. If you three bet it and he caps, then what? check call the river I guess, but it seems like a pricy play to be making when normally in this instance you are probably way behind. 3) Maybe I'm leaving bets on the table here, but playing back at someone you describe as a solid player with only an overpair on the turn seems to me to be a long term negative play. 4) I totally agree with rigoleto's post that it's way easier to scream "3-bet" when you know the results. If he flips over 77 then someone would be in your grill about playing too aggressive on the turn. Interesting hand though, good discussion.

[MicroBob]

I would probably call again if faced with the same situation actually and I, for one, am winning on party-15 (admittedly with not a large enough sample size).

The key for me being that I have him read as likely a tight 2+2'er.

Of course, if it was the exact same player (not just ANOTHER tight 2+2'er) then I would happily push back at him based on my read from this hand.


FWIW - Most of the time my problem is that I'm TOO LAG.
I push and chase too much when I am holding too little (although I've shown much improvement the past few weeks).

So this whole thread where I take a few jabs for playing it too weak-tight actually comes across as a bit of a compliment. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[mplspoker]

Fair enough. Trust me if you wouldn't have posted the outcome, I still would have said the same though.

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW - I don't KNOW for fact that it's a 2+2'er....just somebody with the same name as one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you should say which poster it is because there is a decent chance he doesn't remember, but it doesn't matter.

BTW, I think he played it fine, if you don't have an overpair you will fold here most of time.