Fairly common situation. Flop decision.

Avatar · #1 01-03-2005, 03:48 AM

With villain for only 20 hands, and he is noticeable loose pre-flop with a VPIP of 60% thus far. 10% pfr but thats not saying a whole lot with the size of my sample size. Regular aggression flop, turn, and noticeably more on the river.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, SB folds, Hero...

I think the flop is where the obvious decision has to be made.

Shillx · #2 01-03-2005, 03:58 AM

Hero calls.

Brad

Avatar · #3 01-03-2005, 10:55 AM

Brad what if Villain is a TAG. Still mandatory showdown?

Avatar · #4 01-03-2005, 10:59 AM

Flop: (3 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (5.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

Anyone bet the river?

I chose not too because it's so difficult to fold to a raise at this point and I felt this type of player bets it more than not in a HU situation.

kyzerjose · #5 01-03-2005, 11:24 AM

Well, Villain could have limped in with PP3 in MP1 I suppose and I'd expect a call from 88 too. Hmmmmm.
Reraise seems the only way of really finding out where you stand. K7o is a really weak hand and you definately have kicker problems. This sort of situation is exactly why one doesn't want to get involved with the Kxo unless it's cheap.
Calling the raise is a signal of weakness.
If the villain comes over you, I'd probably fold and be done with it.
If the villain calls, I suppose one could CC through the river but I have to ask myself why go through the agony?
I'm looking for a reason to bail on this hand.
Pick your battles.

Avatar · #6 01-03-2005, 01:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, Villain could have limped in with PP3 in MP1 I suppose and I'd expect a call from 88 too. Hmmmmm.
Reraise seems the only way of really finding out where you stand. K7o is a really weak hand and you definately have kicker problems. This sort of situation is exactly why one doesn't want to get involved with the Kxo unless it's cheap.
Calling the raise is a signal of weakness.
If the villain comes over you, I'd probably fold and be done with it.
If the villain calls, I suppose one could CC through the river but I have to ask myself why go through the agony?
I'm looking for a reason to bail on this hand.
Pick your battles.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a 3-bet here is the worst option by far. If he calls you MUST lead the turn.

3-betting makes villain fold a bluff attempt or a smaller pair, while making him call down with hands like KQ, KJ, KT, and a few others. Neither of these we want.

Defining my hand costs me more money when behind and stops me from making as much when ahead.

It's a call or fold on the flop and I think it boils down to the read.

DemonDeac Holding Rockets · #7 01-03-2005, 01:49 PM

fold on the flop
pot small, not worth it
-EV

Wheezl · #8 01-03-2005, 02:07 PM

Call flop. Check call turn. Check call river.

I think you played it fine given the player description especially. By betting the river I think you would often have that type of player fold his bluffs and raise/call with hands that beat you. I think you check call the river because you will induce some bluffs that way while at the same time avoid being raised by a bigger kicker or some other better hand. The flop and turn seem to be automatic calls to me as well.

tipperdog · #9 01-03-2005, 02:40 PM

Given no other information, I fold the flop. He seems loose pre-flop, but you said "regular aggression" thereafter. Granted, that's very little to go on, but this sounds like the type of player who limps in way too often hoping to catch a flop (any two cards can win, after all). And when he does catch, he plays it aggressively.

From this point on, it will likely cost you 2.5BBs to win 5.5BBs. Will you win this pot one-third of the time? Very close, but I think not.

(Incidentally, I think your analysis of the situation was dead-on. The decision must be made here and now. If you call here, you're calling all the way to the river, absent very strange turn and river cards.)

tipperdog · #10 01-03-2005, 02:44 PM

There is no case to be made for betting the river. If he has a worse hand (a bluff), he'll fold to a bet while a better hand will always call. If has been bluffing to this point, encourage him to continue with a check/call.