KJ hand 2 questions

sonataarctica · #1 01-02-2005, 10:44 PM

all villians are pretty much typical fish
Question 1- is this the wrong time to 3-bet a flop?
Question 2- where do i go from the turn on?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero calls, CO calls, Button folds, SB raises, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB raises, UTG+1 folds, Hero 3-bets, CO folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero....
results to come

bozlax · #2 01-02-2005, 10:58 PM

Maybe I'm too tight (commentary welcome), but I fold KJo preflop after there's a raise and 2 calls.

I definitely wouldn't have 3-bet on the flop with a lowish TP and 2K.

Given that a fish is not entirely unlikely to be playing a ten in this hand, and assuming I'd made it all the way to the turn, I'd be out.

But, like I said, maybe I'm too tight.

Vern · #3 01-03-2005, 12:02 AM

Pre-flop: What is your read of UTG+1, CO, BTN and the blinds. KJ plays best against a limited field, so pre-flop I think I would raise this in an attempt to buy the button and/or knock out some blinds unless I had reads that it would do neither, only then would I just limp behind.

Since you limped, I think I fold this flop. I have TP2K with no strong draws, facing two cold on a very coordinated board and the possibility of a re-raise. Fold.

On your turn question I think that I call down once HU there with top pair unless I have a very good read on BB.

Kasumeat · #4 01-03-2005, 12:45 AM

Raise preflop. Limping here is horrible.

Hojglad · #5 01-03-2005, 01:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Raise preflop. Limping here is horrible.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why is raising a better play than limping? What hands are you ahead of that would be raised preflop?

sonataarctica · #6 01-03-2005, 01:27 AM

If its only bet, call instead of bet, raise do i then raise?

Kenrick · #7 01-03-2005, 04:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Raise preflop. Limping here is horrible.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why is raising a better play than limping? What hands are you ahead of that would be raised preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I'd like to hear an explanation, too. KJo with four guys to go isn't exactly roses.

2) don't know why you'd want to 3-bet a crap hand against someone who says they have something decent.

3) you've been shown nothing but aggression the whole way. Maybe KJo is a crap-ass hand afterall, eh?

Vern · #8 01-03-2005, 05:00 AM

Raising is better because KJo does better against few opponents, unsuited big cards do poorly in multiway pots. So you would raise pre-flop to try and limit the field. This does not work at low limit unless you have a nice tight read on some of the players left to act. There is one early position limper and 4 left to act, if you cannot get at least two of the players after you to fold, raising is wrong. If you have a good chance of buying the button and/or knocking out the blinds, you raise. If it is likely three players behind you will call, limping is probably best then.

Kasumeat · #9 01-03-2005, 05:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Raising is better because KJo does better against few opponents, unsuited big cards do poorly in multiway pots. So you would raise pre-flop to try and limit the field. This does not work at low limit unless you have a nice tight read on some of the players left to act. There is one early position limper and 4 left to act, if you cannot get at least two of the players after you to fold, raising is wrong. If you have a good chance of buying the button and/or knocking out the blinds, you raise. If it is likely three players behind you will call, limping is probably best then.

[/ QUOTE ]

In addition, (good) players will fold KQ and AJ in this spot, which is very good for you. True, there aren't very many at these limits, but they're the one's you should be most scared of.

DeathDonkey · #10 01-03-2005, 05:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Why is raising a better play than limping? What hands are you ahead of that would be raised preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure I understand your question. I think your saying by raising only better hands will play with you and worse hands will fold? At higher levels / opponent skill levels I would agree, but you will see plenty of coldcallers with KT, QJ, JT, etc. and much worse I'm sure play with you anyway. Raising also is nice if you have a read / stats on the limper already in. If you know he limps with lots of hands worse than KJo than you're raising to isolate him in a way. The goal with an offsuit big card hand like this is to limit the competition as you will win more with less opponents.

-DeathDonkey