The downside to mutlitabling....

droolie · #1 01-02-2005, 11:16 AM

Many people ask how mutlitabling effects BB/100. This is what happens when you are drinking and aren't paying enough attention....

I was four tabling at the time this hand came up. I was in two other hands at the same time. I still can't believe I bet and then reraised this river. All I noticed was my flush coming in. Just didn't notice the board was double paired until I clicked raise the 2nd time on the river. Simply attrocious.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB completes, BB folds.

Flop: (7 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Button folds, SB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (5 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, MP3 raises, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

River: (9 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP3 calls all-in.

Final Pot: 15 BB

_Kevin_ · #2 01-02-2005, 11:59 AM

I find multitabling (more than 2) really hurts me. I just don't get good reads on people and miss things. I often can't remember how the betting got to the river (especially if I have 3 or 4 active hands) and I have a hard time putting people on hands. Looking back, my BB/100 is much lower 4 tabling than when I single table.

Anyone have advice for how to approach multitable and to build the necessary skills? I understand that if you only drop your BB/100 by a factor of 2 (which is probably extreme) but play 4 tables you are effectively doubling your win rate per hour. My problem is I go from a winning player with 1 or 2 tables to a very small profit with 4 tables. Some of this may be variance but I certainly see a lot of mistakes and missed opportunities when 4 tabling I don't see 1 or 2 tabling.

detruncate · #3 01-02-2005, 06:29 PM

Take it slow. I work with the notion of "attention deficit/surplus". When I first started out, it took all my attention (and more) to keep up with 1 table. I didn't know what I was looking for beyond the super-obvious read-wise, and each situation I found myself in required thought. It mystified me that people could say they found playing 1 or 2 tables too slow.

As you start to come to terms with the basics, you find yourself having to pay less attention to achieve a similar result. You know how to play more common situations, odds are clearer, and you're familiar enough with the major player tendencies that it's more about figuring out how your opponents differ from "cookie cutter". Often people use this attention surplus to read/post, or watch tv, etc. I took it as a sign that I should give 2-tabling a shot.

And I went back to being busy. Focusing on keeping up. I eventually became more comfortable, though you do lose something wrt reads with each table you add. You need to work through the period of reduced effectiveness (your attention deficit) until you come to terms with things and slowly start to improve to the point where you can think about adding more tables.

I tried 3 before I was ready and had to drop back down to 2. Later on (and after quite a few more hands)I went straight to 4. The point is that everyone has their own multi-tasking aptitudes, and you should therefore tailor your progression to your situation. It took me a while to get comfortable. It might take you more or less time. The only important thing is that you recognize where you are and act accordingly.

If you find it takes most of your attention to keep track of the action or get adequate reads at the level you're playing, stick where you are for a while. If it's really difficult, think about dropping one or more tables. It's not just your bankroll that holds back your progress in poker. Technical skills and psychology should also be part of the equation.

Also bear in mind that though multi-tabling is a skill like any other, it can adversely affect your learning in other areas. On the upside, you see lots more hands... and more unfamiliar situations by extension. On the downside, it's easy to fall into robotic play, and to continue to make "default" plays without examining them. As you said, it will also usually also have a negative effect on your winrate... though this is difficult to quantify given the number of hands you would have to play both before and after to have a semi-accurate idea either winrate. I wouldn't worry too much about this unless it's obviously a problem (i.e., you're losing money at an unsustainable rate). Just make sure you're adequately bankrolled and play whatever number of tables you're comfortable with.

My recent move to 2/4 caused me to drop from 6 tables of .5/1 to 2 tables of 2/4. I'd played tens of thousands of hands 4(+) tabling .5/1, but it still took me quite a long time to feel comfortable enough at 2/4 to step back up to 4. There was enough going on that I didn't want to have to worry about keeping up with the button clicks.

Finally, when you're adding tables, drop down to a limit you don't mind losing money at or 2/3/4-table the play money tables for a while. And don't worry if you're not comfortable playing more than 1 or 2 tables. Lots of good small stakes players don't aggressively multi-table. In any case, there's plenty of time to worry about it later. If you're anything like me, there are always other areas that could use the attention.

bisonbison wrote a good primer on multi-tabling. You can find it here. There have also been quite a few other threads about this. Try a search if you want to explore the topic further.

Cheers.

Shillx · #4 01-02-2005, 06:32 PM

Yeah the river sucks.

I like the turn bet however.

Brad

shadow29 · #5 01-02-2005, 06:40 PM

At least he was shortstacked.

stone_7 · #6 01-02-2005, 06:53 PM

I have recently started multitabling andI find that it has vastly improved my winrate. I tend to get bored easily and play hands that I shouldn't because I haven't played one in a while. As soon as I started multitabling this complely stopped and my vpip number fell dramatically. I know I could have done this without multitabling but this effect should not be overlooked when deciding to multitable. I would wager that noone can multitable and not lower their vpip # If you were seeing 40% of flops while multitablign then you would almost always be in 2 hands or more and drive yourself crazy. I strongly recommend multitabling if you think you are playing hands you shouldn't out of boredom.

BruceF · #7 01-02-2005, 07:04 PM

I'm still relatively new, but have been very successful playing at UB and Royal Vegas. I started bonus whoring and need a lot of hands at UB to work off my bonus. No problem - I'll start multi-tabling. First day, I lose more than I've ever lost and am now slightly down (yes, I had some bad beats, but after looking at Pokertracker, I realize that as I started losing big, I stopped being as aggressive, which made matters worse). Morale of the story for me - I'll stick with 1 table for a while [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

EliteNinja · #8 01-02-2005, 07:32 PM

Reads are not a problem for me when I 4-table.

Pokertracker takes care of about 10 to 15% of the table, while I watch the players carefully and make notes as I go. I can usually fill in notes for about 1/3rd to half of the people on my screen (4 tables).

It's not hard to recognize calling stations. A sign I look for is cold-callers. Also, I take a look at the hand histories to see what people show down with and make note of what hands they play in what position.

I can do all this whilst playing 4 tables. If I can do it, you can do it.

shadow29 · #9 01-02-2005, 07:53 PM

GT+ rules.

EliteNinja · #10 01-02-2005, 08:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
GT+ rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

Too bad I have to just rely on Note Export, since my computer will crash with PT and 4-tables.

4-tables + MSN Messenger crashes my computer!

Getting a new computer next month.