Do you fear quads in this situation?

[Withen]

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It seems like most of those points (1, 3, 4 and 5) would apply to any situation when it is one bet to you in the small blind (or any early position). Why, then, would SSHE reccomend raising as a default play in this position? Are they wrong? Under what circumstances (aside from an obvious steal attempt) would a raise be correct?

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Not to respond to my own post or anything, but after thinking about it a bit I agree with you. I think that I've been reading the SSHE preflop reccomendations too rigidly, and not thinking about the why of things. SSHE reccomends playing against a raise in the SB the same way you would play EP against a raise, and I think something is lost in that simplification. Many of the benifits of raising in EP against a bet are eliminated when you are in the SB. I think this is one of those cases where SSHE sacrifices some EV for simplicity's sake.

edit: there is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.

[Lmn55d]

Stellar, I think those are all good points, but I dont think you took into account how TT compares to the hands the coldcallers might have such as J6o or 22. True, if the raiser has QQ-AA your equity is kind of screwed, but it is probably pretty nice when he doesn't, taking into account these two other guys and the other people who might call 3 from blinds.

[Reef]

how could you 3 bet that preflop ?

edit: ok, maniac. 3 bet that

[BaronVonCP]

I think the draw-heaviness of the board makes it very likely that there will be a lot of cold-calling going on on several streets.

Make sure it happens as often as possible.

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
Stellar, I think those are all good points, but I dont think you took into account how TT compares to the hands the coldcallers might have such as J6o or 22. True, if the raiser has QQ-AA your equity is kind of screwed, but it is probably pretty nice when he doesn't, taking into account these two other guys and the other people who might call 3 from blinds.

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Well if I thought J6o was a likely hand I'd have to give a little extra credit for that guy. Despite my best efforts usually only one player at my 2/4 tables plays J6o for one bet and even they tend to think about it when confronted with a raise.

It's hard to win your 25% against a sound PFR and two loose but not insane coldcallers when you have to go first. Plus of course a generous margin to pay for the times an overpair caps us.

A big problem with marginal preflop raises is we play well. That means that based on the odds, we may fold postflop despite having outs or a small chance that our hand is good.

Many of our opponents are less discrete. They chase down every plausible hope. That costs them a pile of money postflop and I love them for it. But the value in a preflop raise comes from making your numbers. You have to win your fair share of pots despite the fact that he is a calling station and you aren't. Otherwise you are better off saving your money by just calling. I think many good players don't make proper allowance for this problem.

[o0mr_bill0o]

Interesting, I can definitely see why i shouldn't 3-bet TT in this position. do you guys advocate playing JJ in the same manner?

[AviD]

My gosh, bison buddy these questions make me wanna hurl... [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]