AJo UTG vs. a TAG

afk · #1 12-26-2004, 08:50 PM

My opponent in this hand is much better than your average bear. In short, I respect his play. You might as well assume he's 2+2 for simplicity (if you recognize this hand and you're the villain shoot me a pm and say hi!).

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 5 folds, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets...

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

Shillx · #2 12-26-2004, 08:54 PM

This play has zero value against a 2p2'er IMO. This play probably has some value against the player you describe though. A 2p2er will raise with AA/AK and probably with AQ. He will fold KK-TT. I hope you are folding if raised.

Brad

afk · #3 12-26-2004, 08:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I hope you are folding if raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes there is no way I'm calling a river raise. I'm just kinda stuck because I think AJo is in the middle of the pack of his 3betting hands in this situation.

edit: Do you think I should check the river intending to call one instead?

Shillx · #4 12-26-2004, 09:02 PM

I think a strong case can be made for check/folding the river. If he will check through pairs like KK-TT and fold if you bet into him, then check/folding is the 100% correct play. Check/call if he will take another shot with those hands. I think that betting has the least amount of value in this spot (against a non-TAG, betting is almost certainly correct).

Brad

EDIT - My line in spots like this with top pair is...

Check/call - Against a frequent bluffer.
Bet - Against a typical player.
Check/fold - Against a TAG or someone who will never bet a worse hand when checked to. I think that this is the case here, but I could be wrong.

If AJo is middle of the pack for his 3-betting hands, there is no way I'm folding. Check/call this guy.

afk · #5 12-26-2004, 09:16 PM

Thanks for the input shillx.

And as for some results:
I bet, he called and showed TT. MHIG.

antidan444 · #6 12-26-2004, 09:32 PM

I'm replying to this because if I'm the one who's way off base, I want to know ...

I play pre-flop and flop the same. Once I catch an ace on the turn, I checkraise, fold to a three-bet (against a known TAG; I call down the typical Party micro player) or, should TAG just call the turn raise, lead the river on a non-spade or check-call should a spade come.

Please help me if this is not optimal. I thought a turn check-raise here was pretty straightforward, even against a TAG.

mmbt0ne · #7 12-26-2004, 10:50 PM

The problem with a checkraise is that you can't be sure you're ahead, so you want to pay as little as possible to see the cards.

With your line you're investing 2.5 BB after the flop, and folding with 4 cards out. With his line, he's investing the same 2.5 BB, and getting to see all 5 cards, and see a showdown assuming the river isn't raised (which hero was planning to fold to anyway). If the villian was a LAG, I would definitely check-raise because I'll have him beat most of the time. With a TAG here, villian could very easily hold AK or AQ in which case you have 1 A and 2 6's to a tie, and 3 J's to a win. You don't want to give him the chance to fold you out with 1 card remaining when you planned on putting in the same number of bets anyway.

antidan444 · #8 12-26-2004, 10:52 PM

That's the explanation I wanted. Much thanks.

pokerjunky · #9 12-26-2004, 11:19 PM

I'm still not quite sure why anyone would call this flop. Even if you spike an ace or jack your hand is still marginal with the villain 3-betting the flop, and the pot odds don't really make up for this fact.

sx3_turbo · #10 12-27-2004, 12:01 AM

I would check raise the turn here. It seems to gain more information from that. If it comes 3-bets back to you, you know you're probably beat. If he calls I would think I may be best. I think I would want to know that I am beat before I fold here. Even against a TAG, I'm not completely convinced that I am beat.

If you follow SSH, KK-TT, KQs can be likely hands to 3-bet pre-flop and you are ahead of all of those on the turn. Unless I was very familiar with a player and knew I could limit it to AA,AK,AQ, I'm check-rasiing here.