Overpair missing the flop

MojoRisin · #1 12-26-2004, 01:32 AM

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero raises, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Good or bad? This frequently happens to me, what are factors to determine when an overpair misses the flop?

davelin · #2 12-26-2004, 01:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero raises, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Good or bad? This frequently happens to me, what are factors to determine when an overpair misses the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Miss the flop? What are you talking about, you're most likely the best hand here.

MojoRisin · #3 12-26-2004, 01:34 AM

Badly worded I guess, I mean gets no help from.

davelin · #4 12-26-2004, 01:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Badly worded I guess, I mean gets no help from.

[/ QUOTE ]

This flop is pretty good for you. AA-JJ isn't only good when you hit your set on the flop. I'd raise the flop for value, although this is a potential wait for the turn to protect your hand better scenario.

Cardzy · #5 12-26-2004, 01:58 AM

You didn't miss, no overcards came to your pocket pair, therefore you HAVE top pair. Play it as such. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Raise that flop.

Stork · #6 12-26-2004, 02:07 AM

Originally I wrote "Not raising this flop sucks." , but I take that back because it could be OK to wait for the turn to pop it if a safe card comes. That said though, I would still expect a flop raise to show more profit. And by the way, this is about as good a flop as you could hope for with JJ.

Jasmien · #7 12-26-2004, 02:12 AM

the flop is just fine but i would just call with the intention of raising the turn. There are two reasons:
You cant protect your hand here very well (they are getting 7.5-1 if you raise). So even a gutshot with overcards or backdoorouts could call profitable.
SB wil probably bet into you on the turn if you just call, but check if you raise. So if he bets the turn, you raise.
Again, you cant protect your hand on the turn since SB is on your left. But you get much more value if a blank comes and your edge is much bigger (cause only one card comes on the river).
If you can exploit a bigger edge on the turn, call the flop.

Aaron W. · #8 12-26-2004, 02:15 AM

"Overpair" and "missing flop" don't match. Overpair = good; missing flop = bad.

I think I would wait until the turn to raise this one. If either player is on a draw, you're not gettting rid of them, so you might as well try to get them for two big bets on the turn (hoping that SB bets out again) if the turn card doesn't complete any obvious draws. If a heart falls, you'll need to re-evaluate based on the action and whatever reads you may have. You'll get more money in the pot when your equity is much larger, and so you'll be making more money.

Hack · #9 12-26-2004, 05:17 AM

I like your smooth call here on the flop.

Don't assume you're beat on the flop. I've found that a lot of stars micro players are automatically suspicious of preflop raises and always put you on Ace-King. They don't figure you for an overpair here and lots of people in these cases have a hand like Tx.

Even if the SB does have two pair on the flop you have lots of outs to counterfeit his two pair and beat him with jacks up.

I like your smooth call on the flop and I hope he bets out again on the turn so you can trap the field for another bet from each.