Negreanu Chip dumping? You make the call!

[barryg1]

Jennifer won four amazing all-in hands in the last 2 hours of the Bellagio WPT before they got to the final six: Eights vs. Jacks, Eight-Nine vs. Jacks, King-Jack vs. King-Queen, and with seven players left she was all in with Fives against Humberto's Sixes. It was miraculous, but it was also frustrating that the two times Daniel won his bet, she and he played at the same table and she beat Daniel some key pots. In the PPT, he certainly didn't try to dump: he bluffed into her full house. In this last tournament, though, with seven players remaining, twice he raised in for a good portion of her chips and she reraised all-in and he folded. The players at the table didn't like it, but I am not protesting.

I wouldn't dump to Mimi, but I wouldn't be happy knocking her out. The last time Mimi and I played together was in a no-limit event at the WSOP. I raised for what amounted to half of her chips. She went all-in and I said, "I don't think it would be ethical to fold getting 3 to 1 odds on my small pair, so I call." I flopped a set and knocked her out.

Barry

[drewjustdrew]

[ QUOTE ]
The last time Mimi and I played together was in a no-limit event at the WSOP. I raised for what amounted to half of her chips. She went all-in and I said, "I don't think it would be ethical to fold getting 3 to 1 odds on my small pair, so I call." I flopped a set and knocked her out.


[/ QUOTE ]

So she was dumping chips to YOU!! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[sammysusar]

i would assume for the most part the wpt and world series large holdem events are almost completely honest deals just because of the large sizes of the fields. any group chip dumping would have to be quite large and very close knit. i doubt organizing something like that in a large field would be easy but im far from an expert.

[OrangeKing]

[ QUOTE ]
i would assume for the most part the wpt and world series large holdem events are almost completely honest deals just because of the large sizes of the fields. any group chip dumping would have to be quite large and very close knit. i doubt organizing something like that in a large field would be easy but im far from an expert.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would think this sort of thing was more likely in the past, when fields were much more manageable. Now with hundreds of players in every major event, most of whom are out to win it for themselves, it seems a lot less likely that you'll ever see someone who has agreed to dump chips to you.

[stillnotking]

[ QUOTE ]
Many people think that most of the famous names you see making final tables over and over again have chip dumpers during tournaments. The chip dumpers ould be the calling stations that fold on the river, could be the guys that fold to big re-raises to the same player on numerous times.

Personally I wouldn't doubt it. Not like poker players are the model of good, honest citizens. This ain't golf or tennis, this sport is full of shady characters.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not very likely. First of all, they'd have to do this consistently without anyone noticing, and that's difficult when you're a big name player and are watched like a hawk by other pros and interested spectators. Second, having a chip dumper would be only slightly profitable in a best-case scenario, because you have to pay for 2 buy-ins plus whatever juice you give the chip dumper, it is extremely unlikely that you will end up getting all or even most of that person's chips, and chip value goes down as your stack size goes up. Finally, seat assignments at all major tournaments are random, and we're talking about tournaments with 200+ entrants in many cases. How do you even guarantee you'll be at the same table?

[Equal]

I think that Barry and Daniel trust each other each that they are obviously comfortable with the bet.

[Jennifer Harman]

Hey Barry
All these statements you have made aren't exactly the way
it came down. At the final table, I had about 800,000, he raised the pot to 150K. I moved all in on the button, he folded. He had to call another 650,000. That's hardly a big portion of my chips. Same for the other situation. He raised it to 150K. I was in the small blind and I had about 850,000 at the time. I moved in again. Is he supposed to call me here with JT offsuit? He would of played the same against any player there.
I did get incredibly lucky in some of the hands but it wasn't over two hours. It was over 2 days.
As for the PPT, you said that he bluffed me in a hand when we were at the same table. That did happen but it was in the first hour of the start of the tournament. If you don't think he was dumping why are you even mentioning the hand.
Then you mention how ethical you are with Mimi. By making that statement are you implying that me and Daniel are not.


Daniel wanted to add this: Seven handed, I was raising 3 pots a round, nobody ever called. I was making it 150,000 to win 90,000, and doing so I stole over 1.5 million in chips. I wanted it to stay 7 handed as long as possible because it was a very profitable situation. Now why in the world would I play a big pot with K-7 of diamonds and JT offsuit? It made no strategic sense. First place is 1.8 million. DO YOU REALLY THINK that I would jeopardize my chances of winning 1.8 million to beat Barry out of a measly 100 thousand? I'm offended by the implication.

Barry I think this whole post was way out of line and I'm truly surprised that the idea even crossed your mind. I consider you a friend but genuinely feel as though you owe me an apology (end Daniel's quote).

p.s.
For the record Daniel showed both the K-7 and the JT.

Jennifer Harman

[Daniel Negreanu]

[ QUOTE ]
In this last tournament, though, with seven players remaining, twice he raised in for a good portion of her chips and she reraised all-in and he folded. The players at the table didn't like it, but I am not protesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which players didn't like it? Name one? If you were there you would have seen me raising lots of pots and picking up the blinds repeatedly. Vinnie Landrum moved in on me twice... I folded both times. Humberto moved in on me once... I folded. Steve Rassi moved all in on me once... I folded. Jennifer moved in on me twice the entire time and I folded both times. The first time I had K-7 and the second time I had J-10 (I showed both).

I don't know about you Barry but neither hand seemed strong enough to call off another 600 to 650K.

Maybe I need to TEACH you an important tournament tactic. Based on your post you apparantly don't understand that there is no good reason for me to risk almost a million in chips unless I had a monster hand. I went from 4 million to close to 6 million without even seeing a flop.

Instead of playing a big pot, I was chopping away 90,000 at a time with virtually no risk. I realize you are a "side game" player and this concept may be lost on you. When I write my book I'll be sure to send you a copy [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I'm going to close with an old Jack Strauss story from years ago: Years ago Jack was at a final table just one away from the money. He started with a short stack but kept moving all in repeeatedly until he was the chip leader.

Finally the small blind moved all in and Jack called with KK. He busted that player and went on to win the tournament. You know what he said in his interview later? He said, "I think I made one key mistake with those KK. I think I should have FOLDED the KK and kept picking up antes. Evertyone was playing so tight trying to squeak into the money that I could have went to the final table with even more chips than I did."

That's an extreme example obviously, but was EXACTLY what crossed my mind when the play was seven handed- avoid unneccessary risk at all costs. That included called 600K bets with hands like J-10 and K-7!

[AngryCola]

It's too bad Mr. Negreanu doesn't post here more often.

Apparently, the only way to get him posting on 2+2 is to question his integrity.

For those without a sense of humor:
My post is all in good fun. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[The Yugoslavian]

Jennifer,

FWIW it seemed to me like Barry was trying to defend his prop bet decision with Daniel that he feels Mimi is a better player and didn't actual intend to imply that any chip dumping has or ever would occur between you and Daniel.

I do not know you or Barry (so on one hand I have an outsider's perspective but I also lack insight into your personalities) but I do read an awful lot of online board posts and they almost always seem to imply things the original writer genuinely did not mean to imply. Actually, I bet I'm implying all sorts of things right now that are unintentional, [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

I will readily admit that from the information in your post and Daniel's post, the way Barry wrote his post seems inaccurate and more unflattering than I would hope he meant it. I hope you do get the apology from Barry that seems to be in order, [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Yugoslav