Is it better to be happy or right?

[Dov]

I find that I'm usually happier when I'm right. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Dov

[rusellmj]

Eating
Sleeping
Relationships
Sex
Poker
Work
All I know is I can be wrong on many levels and still do all of the above well. Unhappiness, however, has a profound negative affect on all of the above.
Eh?
Russ

[OrianasDaad]

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If you think belief in God leads to a more fulfilling life

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I don't think this. It's different for everyone. My belief in God doesn't fulfill me in any way, but my belief in Truth and myself does. Some people might find fulfillment in knowing that there is a Creator watching over them. I find fulfillment in knowing I'm right.

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but have some logical doubts about various claims made by all religions,

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Who wouldn't? Church doctrines all have political and social agendas. I've been attending church with my wife for the last couple of years, and I don't think I've heard a sermon yet that doesn't have some underlying message.

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would you choose skepticism or faith?

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Both, actually. My belief in God is something that is so self-evident to me that I have to accept it as fact. I can't prove this, however, but I accept it as fact, just as the sky is blue, and the grass is green. After reading a series of books by a self-proclaimed athiest (who went on several rants against "mysticism", as she called belief in God), I did alot of introspection. I really agreed with most of her ideas - and still do. I had trouble with this athiesm thing, so I had to come to my own decision on the matter. Either God existed or he didn't. It's not provable either way, so I had to make a choice. I don't remember how exactly I came up with my answer, but I've got it, and that's what matters.

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I have been told that many of the most famous skeptics in history were miserable, while I see blissful and ignorant people all day long.

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I'm certain you have also seen ignorant and miserable people, as well as skeptics who were happy and satisfied with their life.

Skeptics are probably cranky most of the time because they doubt everything, including themselves. As far as ignorant people, I don't think about them too much, and neither should you.

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Not that I know they are wrong about their god, but that I know they have never really questioned the beliefs handed down to them.

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You can't really know someone's mind, but I see where you are going. You are going the wrong direction with this. You are looking at others, and what others tell you for solutions to your own questions. Now, it's perfectly OK to look to others for information, but never, ever, base yourself on comparison to other's - either their being or ideas.

I delivered pizza once upon a time. There was a new girl who worked mabye a couple of months who I overheard say "I want to get as good at saucing pizzas as he is." Now, that's praise, in a way, and nice to hear - but I immediately collared her and told her that's not how I got to be as good as I am. I told her that everything I do, I try to do it better than the last time I did it. Self-comparison. It's much more honest, and works better, too.

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If you don’t believe in religion, all you have is this life.

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Wrong. Belief in God doesn't automatically mean belief in Religion. There's a difference. Whether or not there's an afterlife, I don't know. I tend to think there is, but I haven't come to a firm belief in it yet. In all likelyhood I'll decide that there is an afterlife, though.

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Why would you choose something that you gives you less of a sense of meaning and hope?

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Why, indeed? Why not make your own choices instead?

[niin]

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Why would you choose something that you gives you less of a sense of meaning and hope?

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Why is belief in a higher being/power the only way you can achieve a sense of meaning and hope?

[paland]

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I agree with you Bodhi. To claim "there is no God" is a statement of faith. To be an atheist is to be a man of faith. I don't do faith very well, so I call myself agnostic. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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So if somebody says to me that Chickens are actually Gods and can perform magic and I don't agree with that, then I am making a statement of faith??

[na4bart]

This has probably been the best and most contraversial thread the forum has ever produced. I feel compelled to add my two cents.

Through trial and error my spiritual life has boiled down to one overridding principle: Do the right thing, no matter what. As I'm sure someone will point out, how do I/we know what the right thing is? My only answer to that is it appears to be built in. For me the answer is always there if I am able/willing to get beyond the clamor of getting what I want. It seems that about half the time, doing what is right is at odds with my wants. So, no payoff it would seem. Then why do I really like the guy I shave each morning? Why does the committee between my ears shut down when I lay down at night? Why am I a genuinely happy man? I really have no answer other than there is probably more to this universe than meets the eye. Simplistic, yes. Work for me, yes.

Just a poker player

"There is a principle that is a bar against all information, a proof against all arguments and cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

[Rudbaeck]

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Bernie, I wasn't trying to say that you can't derive meaning and hope outside of religion. I would say, however, that out of people I know, religious people are on average more happy than athiests. There are many exceptions to the rule.

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Not only that, religious people are healthier as well. Statistics clearly show that religious people are healthier and happier than Joe Average.

This caused psychologists to tear their hair for a while, and the doctors soon joined in. It's a weird but clear correlation.

But correlation doesn't show cause. A few decades ago a rather famous study showed that kids who took latin in high school did better in college. This caused lots of parents to force their kids into taking latin. Once again correlation isn't cause, smart kids are more likely than not-so-smart kids to chose latin all on their own. And not so surprisingly smart kids do better in college.

So, what is really causing health and happiness in the religious folks?

*drumroll*

A wide network of friends and good deep relationships with friends cause both happiness and health. Bridge players are about as healthy as church goers. There is still a small but significant difference in recuperation from serious illness between religious people and Joe Average, but we are fairly certain this comes from the patients positive expectations and not from divine intervention.


And to the original question: Wouldn't it be best to be both happy and right? I'm fairly certain there is no creator, and yet I can be broght nearly to tears by perfectly natural wonders. Physics is awe inspiring to me far beyond what fairy tales could ever be. The cosmos doesn't require a creator to be filled with meaning. Actually I find the idea of no creator more awe inspiring than the idea of a creator.

The lack of an afterlife doesn't really bother me. Immortality is found in our children as well as in the legacy we leave the world. 2,300 years later every high school kid still knows who Platon was. We have pieces of art that have endured for 40,000 years. How much more immortality do you need?

[nmbvua]

I find this thread Quite amuseing. To Question weather there is a God or not LOL.. Hey lets get to the Question.
Now say in your small neighbor hood everyone was In a gang well they are stronger in numbers against you as a single sole.
Now lets get a little larger the Town humm now we have church's, and Lodge's. quite simple larger number's are easyer to rule the roost than a single sole. cause they can cut a wider path.
Most folks I have seen to attend church realy don't care about the religon itself. but the fact that it gives them the opertunity to congragate, and what small towns call gossip. leads to advertisement for businessmen etc. and folks tend to stick to there own when it comes to groups.

Quite simple if you feel you can easyer to concore 1,000 people by yourself go head. if it would be easer to do it with 250 then get out of bed sunday lad.
If you think what im telling you is wrong single handly walk up to a church on sunday and try. Try to sell vacumes they will give you that snobby look and send you on your way. Now if you were a member of the church you would sell a few vac's and would have mad some $$$ leading to happyness. Doesn't matter your I.Q. lad just being in the right spot at the right time.
In closeing:
"is it better to be happy or right?" you can have the best of both cause alota folks, don't realy care for the religion, but only for the company it brings.

[Bodhi]

No, because we can empirically confirm that chickens are not Gods who perform magic.

Although official church doctrine used to place God and Heaven just outside our solar system (no sh*t), today God is "outside" of all the galaxies and space that we might ever observe. Consequently, there is no possible experience that could ever confirm or disconfirm his existence.

[CraigNYC]

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Why would you choose something that gives you less of a sense of meaning and hope?

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Why is it that people feel a belief in religion or God or whatever is necessary to have a sense of meaning and hope in the world? That's what I don't understand. The meaning of life (could be) what YOU make out of your life. If you choose to live as a bad person, a liar, cheater, a 'jackass', that's your choice. But it still means you are those things. Isn't NOT being those things enough meaning for life?

Maybe it isn't but it should be.