Party 15/30 big blind defense AT

William Jockusch · #1 12-16-2004, 12:38 PM

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, CO raises, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8.66 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP2 bets, CO calls, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8.33 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Hero folds

Comments?

meow_meow · #2 12-16-2004, 01:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, CO raises, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8.66 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP2 bets, CO calls, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8.33 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Hero folds

Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why check the turn?
The only player you could expect to drop with your CR is UTG, and his cold-call screams flush/OESD.
I think if MP2 has a J, he reraises. CO maybe has an overpair, but AK/AQ/KQ also possible.

I'd bet the turn for sure, fold to a raise.

Paluka · #3 12-16-2004, 02:45 PM

I think he checks the turn because he has decided that with everyone calling his raise, somebody must have a jack. But when it gets checked all the way to the cutoff on the turn, I'm tempted to call again. I'm going to make one of these limpers checkraise the turn to get me to give up my hand.

joseki · #4 12-16-2004, 03:09 PM

Do you guys like this pre-flop call? Seems like a small-win/big-loss situation to me. I figure I'm either dominated or facing a hand that likely mucks when an A hits the board.

ReMMy · #5 12-16-2004, 05:10 PM

If you checkraise the flop you need to lead the turn and then decide the rest of your play based on the resulting action and the types of players. If you aren't going to lead the turn you shouldn't have checkraised.

ReMMy

Nightwish · #6 12-16-2004, 05:27 PM

I don't like calling preflop against an unknown player. Also, the turn check-fold makes no sense to me. After the flop action, you should bet out and fold to a raise.

Fianchetto · #7 12-16-2004, 06:54 PM

I tell you, I don't like it much.

First off, I think its a muck preflop. Sure you are getting 7-1 or so, but you are out of position with a hand that is easily dominated by a legitimate preflop raiser.

Second thing, once you are in I would play this hand cautiously, but I would not fold unless someone showed significant strength postflop. i.e. raising the turn.

You checkraised the flop, then check folded the turn?

I would either lead out on the turn and probably fold to a raise depending on what I know about the raiser (with a nutball, I might have to call it down), or check the turn like you did but at least call a bet from the CO. He could be betting a straight draw, flush draw, overcards... from his point of view when the turn gets checked to him it looks like nobody has a jack. Yeah, he could also have you beat with an overpair or AJ or something, but I think since you got yourself to this point, and the pot is now fairly large, you need to get to a showdown for as cheap as possible. In your situation I would check/call the turn and river.

Another thought is checkraising the turn. There is a small chance your hand is good, and you will face the field with 2 bets cold, there are a lot of draws out there too, so this may not be a bad line. You will lose more this way when someone does have you beat.

I think you should have mucked preflop, but since you didn't do that, I would have led to turn, and probably folded to a raise. If I just got called on the turn, I'd probably check/call the river, giving a missed draw the opportunity to bluff or possibly getting an overpair to check it down.

amulet · #8 12-16-2004, 08:20 PM

an early player limped, the co raised, you have AT which is trash, fold it, you will save money.

William Jockusch · #9 12-17-2004, 05:03 AM

I think the preflop decision is close. But can we focus the discussion on the turn?

It's just a personal thing -- I know for a fact that my preflop game is fine. Maybe that call was right, maybe it wasn't, but it sure wasn't far wrong. Postflop improvements is where I can make more money.

Blake Lovely · #10 12-17-2004, 05:20 AM

Turn action, I would lead.
If I had checked, once co bet I raise.
I would much rather raise there then just call.
Face the 2 opponents who are most likely drawing with 2 bets and see if anybody wants to wake up.
If somebody 3 bets that then we can go away without worries.

I agree with the fold preflop crowd.