5 card draw pre draw

[Nick_Foxx]

al, in my experience the drawing hands are almost always worth playing in pot limit draw because you have much greater implied odds, especially if you can get in cheap from the back or in the blinds... whereas in limit draw, they are almost never worth drawing to unless you are in the blinds

mike

[JoshuaD]

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Never draw more than one card as it disguises your hand comfortably.

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Caro's section in SS is dedicated to 5 card draw, and I know he suggests drawing to where the odds are best for you to improve.

[Al Mirpuri]

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al, in my experience the drawing hands are almost always worth playing in pot limit draw because you have much greater implied odds, especially if you can get in cheap from the back or in the blinds... whereas in limit draw, they are almost never worth drawing to unless you are in the blinds

mike

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The implied odds are there but the opposition will know where you are at most of the time. If someone puts you allin predraw or even makes a good bet then you cannot call and draw.

You have to raise with them, pretend they are two pair and bet whether you hit or not. Only to be done occasionally. I am just thinking it through from my limit experience.

[Al Mirpuri]

Yes, but in Supersystem, Caro, who I have a lot of respect for, is talking about limit draw. That is a game where too much deception is not needed. However, I will go back to it and reread it as I am not sure your assertion is correct even though my argument accounts for what you have said.

It is hard to call a one card draw that bets post draw when it could be a pair, two pair, trips or a pat hand. This is pot limit draw after all.

[DOMIT]

6-handed? Where are you playing anyway, Gutshot?

The only pot-limit draw games that I knew about were Gutshot (24hour) and Planet (unless, of course, you're playing live.. then I'd really like to know more details please [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ).

Planet game is usually only .25/.25 blinds (I did pretty well there tho, I think.. like $3.5-$4/hr). Only problem was that the game didn't go often enough, plus I started playing at Paradise; $1/2 and $2/4.

Personally, I only played the Gutshot game once.. started out ok, and then I had one too many hands that got beaten.. I was playing strictly on money that I won from freerolls [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Personally, I wouldn't play draws unless, as it's been said, you can get in cheap and you have the odds to draw, or know that people will call even if you made your hand.

What I found profitable when playing, were people that called with the worse of it, time and again. Playing shorts, calling down with a smaller two pair when you had a higher two pair or better. Plus, being able to know your players. I played with most of the same players, and knew when to fold and when to call much of the time.

If you find yourself in a game that you don't know where you're at, you can try to wait for the "nuts" and try to trap. If the game has a lot of raising and aggressive play, I'd probably say forgetaboutit. Game selection is aways a key to winning play.

Good luck.

[mat]

is gutshot the same as 24 that is where i am planing on playing. does anyone play there? i am assuming that those games are pretty tough, just a few players. i have always been facinated with draw poker i just cant stand limit. i guess it would be better to start out in limit but since i dont have any pressure to do any better than break even for a while i figure it will take some time. i have played just PL omaha and NL holdem for a while now. i plan on posting a lot of hands im sure that ill need a lot of help. but im determined to learn everything i can about this game. are there any 5 card draw games anywhere live?

[bygmesterf]

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In big bet poker, you tighten up full stop.

Open with nothing but Aces and high two pair. Calling raises: use medium trips as your guideline. I would imagine draws do not play well unless you bluff them as two pair.

Never draw more than one card as it disguises your hand comfortably.

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And if you play like this no one will give you any action, except when you are beat. The Agressive 24hpoker players will destroy you. Al I get the sense that you havent played alot of PL Draw, since your advice sounds straight out of Zadeh/Ankey.

PL Draw is much more about the players and their style than the cards. If there is alot of predraw raising with position, then you have to tighten up. Otherwise play your normal game, except be very wary of getting involved in raised pots.

I think the best guideline is that you can bet or raise with any hand, but to call you must have solid values for the situation. For example the button likes to pot raise with Jacks or better but doesn't bet into 1 card draws. Call him with any two pair, or even aces with two kickers.

When opening in early positions, my key concern is what happens if I get raised. Ideally I want to be in a position where I can get most of the money in predraw with a good hands. Thus you want to open for an amount, that if it gets pot raised behind you, you can reraise all in close to it.

You want to avoid tricky guessing games after the draw, especially in raised pots.

If you are known as somone who always draws 1, you lose out on beinging able to represent trips, and make the best possible draw at your hand. Just vary your play.

Unless you are drawing, its to your interest to keep the pot small unless you can set the draws all in. Position is critical with Two Pair hands in raised pots, since most of the time you will be passing a bet after the draw.

I'd also say that as a class 24hpoker players tend to underbet too much after the draw. This is lame. Overbet your cinches.

[Phat Mack]

Ankheny's is a solid book that discusses game theory using examples drawn from potlimit draw. It's a great book (I used it when I was studying bluffs in PLO), but I wouldn't call it a book about draw poker.

A good intro to Draw is Norman Zadeh's Winning Poker Systems, which is work to read, but will give you the tools to begin playing Draw in all formats.

[DOMIT]

Sorry for just getting back to you. My wife and I just got back from the World Blogger's Poker Tour Holiday Classic Tournament that was held at Sam's Town.

Yes, Gutshot and 24h are the same. And, yes, I've heard that it's tough there.. and from my experience it can be for a beginning player. (I don't know if the games are any different now...I think it's been about a year since I played the game there.)

Let me know if you find anything live! I'd really like to get the opportunity to play if the limits aren't prohibitive. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]