Calling when you might be drawing dead.

[kidpoker22]

Co+1 raises, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, I'm in the BB w/ JcTc and call.

Flop comes AcAh8c. I check PF raiser bets, everbody calls.

Turn 8d. I check. CO+1 bets and button calls. I fold(?)

River 3c. Check, check. Bettor shows KK, button mucks.

Bad play? I figured I might make my hand and still loose two more BB's. I dunno'.

[Barry]

That's a horrible fold.

Your getting an immediate 11:1 on the call to make a 5:1 shot of hitting on the turn. Factoring in 1 turn bet makes your effective odds 5.5:1.5 to make a 2:1 shot. That's plenty of overlay for the very few times that you might be drawing dead and it doesn't even consider the implied odds that you have here.

[kidpoker22]

Thanks. I wasn't sure on what the correct play there is. It's a call I would automatically make if the board read 5588 or something of that texture, but I assumed w/ a raise from a solid player pre-flop there was a good chance I might hold a 0-outer.

Also, could you elaborate the 2:1 effective odd thing? I'm 5:1 to make my hand there, right? Never actually had the patience to read Sklansky all the way through, though tried nobly many times.

KP22

[Nick B.]

[ QUOTE ]
That's a horrible fold.

Your getting an immediate 11:1 on the call to make a 5:1 shot of hitting on the turn. Factoring in 1 turn bet makes your effective odds 5.5:1.5 to make a 2:1 shot. That's plenty of overlay for the very few times that you might be drawing dead and it doesn't even consider the implied odds that you have here.

[/ QUOTE ]

He folded on the turn when the board double paired. I think that is the correct fold.

[Jeffage]

Barry,

You musta misread this right? You still want to draw to a flush on an AA88 board against a preflop raiser who bets the turn and gets a caller. You will be drawing dead a great deal of the time and this poster should not be results oriented here. The play is folding.

Jeff

[Barry]

Oops, missed the double pairing entirely my way, way bad.

Never mind good fold

[vmacosta]

I agree that it is a fold on the turn but only because there are only (by my count) 8 BB in the pot. Change that number to 12 BBs or so and still have the very passive postflop play as described here and I think it changes this one to a call...of course even if your club hits you can only C/C or bet and fold to a raise (as long a the players aren't tricky).

[Kevin J]

Did you consider betting the flop? I'm not saying it's automatic, but it's legit, and if you did, it's unlikely that you'd still be wondering if you were drawing dead or not.

[TStoneMBD]

i like c/ring the flop here as it definitely looks like you have an ace pounding through 3 callers, not to mention you dont lose any equity if someone has the ace making you a 1:3 dog. as long as the original raiser doesnt 3bet i like the play. if noone has an ace youre almost certainly going to take down the pot. as for the turn, you have 8:1, not 12:1(??). with a dblpaired board and 5:1 required odds easy fold.