GREG RAYMER= OVERATTED ON 2+2??

[Phishy McFish]

OK....coin flip and dominated while not opposites (that would be my hand dominated and my hand was dominated)......they are the polar extremes of what people think of when they flip over the cards.

You actually went further behind in this debate by responding. We are all dumber for reading it.....may g-d have mercy on your soul.

[Beavis68]

[ QUOTE ]
1)
3)David Williams himself said you Raymer fanatics are taking it too far in discussing like 2 hands from 8 months ago(one of which I believe was brilliant if unorthodox poker play) and has said he doesnt want to post here anymore, so before alleging I am driving Raymer of any boards take a long hard look in the mirror bc you guys drove away one of the young great poker minds of tommorow, good job.


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Williams mentioned nothing about Raymer in his post - and it was the only one he ever made here.

No one knows how he thinks about poker because he won't put it in writing. He criticised us for judging his play on what we saw, well what are we supposed to judge it on?

[Scooterdoo]

I don't think anyone, including Greg, would say he is a world-class player at this point. I think everyone agrees that to be considered world-class you need to make quite a few final tables and win multiple big events. Hopefully with Greg's win he will now have the opportunity to play many more events and will have the chance to prove himself.

Regarding Williams and Arieh, they are both strong players and Josh already had some solid success prior to the 2004 WSOP. Dave has done great and I was there to see him win the limit hold-em title at the Bellagio this weekend. However, Dave is a young guy without family obligations and has probably been playing non-stop since his great showing, so while his results since May indicate that he is a really strong player and the WSOP was not a fluke, it doesn't at all indicate that he is a superior player to Greg. The entire premise of your thread is pretty ridiculous if you ask me. Why not just move on to something more constructive at this point.

By the way, watching Dave Williams at the Bellagio I couldn't help but feel good for the guy. He just won a big tournament, had the big pay day in May, had another great payday at the Borgatta tournament, is good looking, young, seems very friendly, is well liked by everyone there, he's doing something he loves... he really has it made. Good for him.

In a year or two we'll have much more to go by and then perhaps we can draw some conclusions regarding Greg and the other finalist from the WSOP.

[JARID]

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You actually went further behind in this debate by responding. We are all dumber for reading it.....may g-d have mercy on your soul.

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Billy Madison is way smarter than Desdia. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Jarid

[JoeC]

Ehh...I'm glad he did. These attacks by Desdia and Zaxx are starting to seem like nothing but baseless vendettas against Greg. If they said it once, then that's cool, everyone's entitled to their opinion. But they keep bringing it up, and this just strikes me as really mean-spirited.

From what I saw of the WSOP, Greg won largely with aggressive play that put other players on the spot. I'm glad he's finally defending this against the worthless assclowns on this board.

[zaxx19]

What attacks did I make on Raymer?? Did you even read the original message?? This is getting comical... especially since I said, precisely like you guys are right now, that 1) he isnt world class and 2) he played an excellent and aggressive tournament that allowed him to win the biggest tourney ever played. So basically you guys parrot what I actually said all along and then bash me for flaming Greg...thats kinda silly isnt it??

Now if you believe the thread just isnt worthwile, I actually aggree with you because of the way people have reacted. It has really just become a lightening rod to bash me or a few other posters who chose to honestly and frankly expressed our opinions and thats not really constructive.

[Tyler Durden]

Desdia, you should never post on 2+2 again. At least not until you learn what a dominated hand is. I feel bad for you. And I can't believe you chose to attack a world champion w/o knowing that simple term cold. Shame on you!

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
but it still felt good.

As for the rest of your post, well, even though it was glaringly obvious long ago that you're simply too much of a moron-who-thinks-he-knows-it-all to be worth replying to, this post certainly seals the deal. You disparage my play using a technical term, and then it turns out you don't even know the meaning. Nothing wrong with not knowing that term, many people play poker and don't. But to misuse it in an argument as to why somebody else isn't such a great player, simply shows you really know nothing significant on the subject. You have now made it clear to the vast majority of 2+2 posters and readers that your opinions about poker are of essentially zero value.

Plus the fact that I said one thing, and you immediately replied as if I'd said the opposite. That means in addition to knowing little-to-nothing about poker, that you're also not fully capable of reading simple English with good comprehension. Does Citibank know this?

At least you got my title right (Highness).

It has been interesting, but it's time for me to use the ignore user feature of this forum for the first time EVER.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

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less. i will say this, if you makes you feel good (even for a little while) to resort to calling me names, be happy that i have'nt resorted to calling you any. i've already gave your [Aunt]Myrtle a wedgie with his girdle for attempting to come out of the mouth slick. if you're really trying to run with that 'Highness' bit as if it means something, you're smoking up what was left of your cut from the $5 mil in some crack alley.

my use of the words or term "dominated hand(s)", from my understanding, was'nt meant in any kind of technical term way. it's not like i'm looking up the glossary term in the back of some poker book saying, "i'm gonna use this 'technical' term in my defense against Greg, even though i don't know the meaning". my use of the term "dominated hand(s)" means that the other player's hand is better than yours. it does'nt matter to me if it is a 52% to 48% favorite, it does'nt matter to me if it is a 60% to 40% favorite. starting out, if the other player's hand is better than yours and your hand needs improving to win, to me that's "dominated". am i using it in it's "technical" or correct way? many have pointed out that i have not; however, i was'nt trying to (also never tried to pass the way i see it off as the correct way) and i don't care.

also, i never used it or said it in a way to suggest you're not a great player. that's something you made up. somehow, you have convinced yourself that i have some type of vendetta against you. c'mon dude, you're not that important or special. you're like any other man to me. you eat, sh#t, breath, and bleed just like the next man. maybe some of these other panty-riders up in these forums lining up to take their best shots at me for having the audacity to have something contrary to say about their 'massa' think you're special, but i don't. as a matter of fact, i don't hold any other person to such a higher regard over myself. everybody is equal, no better or worse than the next person. hell, i feel the same way about George W Bush. i could care less if he's the President of U.S.A. to me he's just a regular man who deserves no more respect or deference than the next man. with that being said, i don't believe in disrespect unless it's given. the times you see me get anywhere diesrespectful on this site is when someone else drew first. i have not disrespected you one bit. i've never called you a name or used an offensive term in reference to you. i can argue my point ferociously and without regard without having to resort to that. it seems like you could'nt hold your pee long enough to let Desmond Diarrhea and 'moron' slip from your mouth. consider that ego-booster and the groupie luv an early Christmas present.

my basic stance has always been RESULTS. if someone is gonna hype you up to be this GOD-LIKE poker player (and i'm specifically speaking about tournaments), then where are these GOD-LIKE RESULTS to prove. yes, you've made a FEW final tables over the years, but so have many other so-called good, non-professional amatuers who don't get mentioned in the same regard. if you have a problem with that, get over it. if you disagree with my RESULTS-ORIENTED thinking, NEWS FLASH, it's old news. quit walking around with your head gassed up and quit thinking "he's out to get me" thoughts. i'm not Jason and you're certainly not some scrawny, female camp counselor running through the woods tripping on nothing.

from the tourney results that another player posted a link for, i was'nt impressed by your results. did you ask whether i was impressed or not? no, but you of all people should understand that people are entitled to their opinions and there's nothing you can do or say to stop them from doing that as much as they want. does the fact that i'm not impressed with your results mean that i think you are a bad player? no, and i've never said that either. going back to my basic stance, if you look at how people cream in their undies over your play in these forums, your results don't reflect that. PERIOD! people who keep bring up things like, "well, Greg is a great guy and a gentleman. his understanding of poker knowledge is excellent" are driving the ball in a bunker. did i ask if Greg was a great guy or whether he understood poker? no. if you ask me, you take my opinions of you too personal and too far when it ain't even that serious.

[Desdia72]

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What attacks did I make on Raymer?? Did you even read the original message?? This is getting comical... especially since I said, precisely like you guys are right now, that 1) he isnt world class and 2) he played an excellent and aggressive tournament that allowed him to win the biggest tourney ever played. So basically you guys parrot what I actually said all along and then bash me for flaming Greg...thats kinda silly isnt it??

Now if you believe the thread just isnt worthwile, I actually aggree with you because of the way people have reacted. It has really just become a lightening rod to bash me or a few other posters who chose to honestly and frankly expressed our opinions and thats not really constructive.

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true. i'm still trying to figure out where they got the Greg Attacks from. it's like we're some rebel Iraqi force that ambushed an American battallion in Fallujah or something. FRONT PAGE NEWS.

[Desdia72]

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Desdia, you should never post on 2+2 again. At least not until you learn what a dominated hand is. I feel bad for you. And I can't believe you chose to attack a world champion w/o knowing that simple term cold. Shame on you!

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your obvious concern has made me see the light. i really do feel like a heel. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]