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#11
12-08-2004, 02:55 AM
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Re: 89s on button against a pf raise
Hey Chairman,
Pre flop: This is straight from SSH. Ed dont sue me. On the button. "Against a raise: Same guidelines that you would use from early and middle positon against a raise, except that if three players have entered the pot so far (the raiser and at least two callers), also call with any pocket pair and QJs-T9s". With you having four callers. I think this is an easy complete. However I dont like most of the lines post flop:. I would have called the flop as you did. A raise is not going to lose anyone and a ton of overcards hurt your hand. Call and see what the turn brings. Turn: If all your 8 and 9's are good and I believe they are this is an easy call getting 10.25:1. River: You missed, this is an easy fold. C'mon. The only think you really beat that UTG might have is AQ, AJ. You are never going to be good here 8% of the time. GL, Brian 
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#13
12-08-2004, 03:22 AM
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Re: 89s on button against a pf raise
which is why i think its important he raises on the flop, it gives him a much better idea where he stands and it only costs one small bet instead of playing the turn for 1 bigbet with less information on where he stands.
your minimizing loss if your beat while still playing the hand. is there something wrong with this? besides whats the point of playing a hand with good position if you dont take advantage of this position to play the hand . I mean there are obviously times where its an easy fold given a flop but this isnt one of those times.
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#14
12-08-2004, 04:48 AM
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Re: 89s on button against a pf raise
[ QUOTE ]
I think i botched some things postflop too. First question, can I call this preflop raise. [/ QUOTE ] Your hand will go on to beat the field about 16-18% of the time. If both blinds come along the call can be slightly positive, but more often then not it will be slightly negative. [ QUOTE ] I know there is some sort of magic number of people in the pot where I can then play this hand. [/ QUOTE ] The value in this hand does not exist pre-flop. Its one of those situations where you can go in preflop with a slight equity defecit knowing you can make it up on later streets. There is no magic to it, you just have to be able to out play your opponents post flop. The better you can out play them, the less people you need in the hand in the first place. The worse you play post flop, the more you need a school of the fish to protect you. Stu
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#15
12-08-2004, 04:53 AM
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Re: 89s on button against a pf raise
Stu
Most excellent, thank you. You had the number 16%-18%, where did you get that from?
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#16
12-08-2004, 05:11 AM
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Re: 89s on button against a pf raise
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If all your 8 and 9's are good and I believe they are this is an easy call getting 10.25:1. [/ QUOTE ] 2 outs vs. AA-JJ,99 0 vs. TT [/ QUOTE ] Agreed. I missed the paired flop. This makes a turn fold much closer if not a definate.
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#17
12-08-2004, 05:33 AM
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Re: 89s on button against a pf raise
Preflop is ok, but close, so a good call if you play it well postflop and a fold for a bad player.
Raise the flop, on this board, a 3bet will be a very reliable way to tell that you are behind and can fold the turn unimproved. Bet the turn and fold if raised if he just call, if UTG is still around on the river, then you may have to check behind.
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