KK vs flopped pair

crownjules · #1 12-07-2004, 03:35 PM

This has been my luck as of late. Making almost no draws, good hands getting beat by four flush cards hitting the board (and I never happen to have one of the flush cards in my hand). Being down 100BB kinda sucks right now, but I keep telling myself the cards will start coming eventually. Anyway...

The villain was new to the table, so no reads.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $0.5.
3 folds, Hero raises, MP3 (poster) calls, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP3 raises, Button calls, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP3 raises, Button folds, Hero calls.

Check/call here?

River: (11.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls.

With trip 3s, I thought he had tried bluffing me with the threat of trip 3s and bet into him and called his reraise. Wrong thought/move?

Final Pot: 15.25 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Kc Ks (full house, threes full of kings).
MP3 has 2s 3c (four of a kind, threes).
Outcome: MP3 wins 15.25 BB.

jrz1972 · #2 12-07-2004, 03:41 PM

I'd start by 3-betting the flop.

btspider · #3 12-07-2004, 03:52 PM

what's your turn plan if capped on the flop?

if anything, i think this hand is a great example of just how difficult it is to defend against free card value caps and free showdown plays with confidence. i'm trying not to read these results yet.. its so tempting tho! i'm pretty undecided about the whole thing..

i'm sure i'm giving the villian too much credit, but its worth considering the play against a better opponent. i probably 3-bet the flop, bet the turn and then call down.. time to look at the results.

papawawa · #4 12-07-2004, 03:53 PM

I'd say you have to 3-bet the flop here, while its still cheap. You can't give him credit for the three so easily in this spot. I would also check the turn to assess his strength.
One possibility is that he thinks you are bluffing with overcards. In this spot he most likely will use his position to put pressure on your "bluff", and by wavering to his aggression, you are neither extracting the maximum nor establishing yourself as a good player for future rounds.

VBM · #5 12-07-2004, 04:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Flop: (8.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP3 raises, Button calls, BB folds, Hero calls.

[/ QUOTE ]
3-bet here. when villain caps, you know you're likely against a premium holding, and less likely but possible, 22 or 3x.

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: (7.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP3 raises, Button folds, Hero calls.

[/ QUOTE ]
Check/call here?
bad card for you; you're reverse dominated by QQ and still behind 22, AA & 3x. The only hands you're head of are JJ & TT. A check-call to the river might be in order. your hand may still be ahead of a JJ/TT type hand and you win unimproved. or, you may river a K and beat QQ, AA and 22 in addition.
I don't think betting is awful here, but when he raises you must read the warning signs and think about what concievable hands you beat and beat you.

[ QUOTE ]
River: (11.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls.

[/ QUOTE ]
You still beat JJ & TT, but now you also beat 22, but are still behind QQ & AA. 3x is unlikely but that also beats you. You haven't improved a lot and discretion may be the better part of valor here.

Check/fold or check/call.

It's easy for me to say this b/c I already know what happens, but sometimes I think ppl get the wrong message (I do/did for sure) and try to play tight-aggressive whenever they ahve a premium holding...but, a premium holding that is 2nd best wins no $$, and you must consider what your hand makes with the board, and what you believe it could be making for your opponent.

best of luck, don't be discouraged! you learn something each and every time... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

jrz1972 · #6 12-07-2004, 04:18 PM

I'm torn between leading the flop and check/calling, which is why I didn't mention it (hoping somebody else had some good ideas). Agreed that it's a tough hand.