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#21
12-07-2004, 12:57 PM
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Re: Making money at poker
[ QUOTE ]
Combine that with the dubious nature of online sites (ie the amount of times that 10-1, and even 20-1 shots come in) and I'm surely onto a loser, no matter what. [/ QUOTE ] No. 10-1 longshots come in just as often online as in real life. Ditto 20-1. [ QUOTE ] So they stay in, and if 9 players stay in after a 10-1 shot, at least one of them is going to beat me 'most' of the time. [/ QUOTE ] Yes. But if you do the math here, you'll see that this is a profitable play over the long run. I think your problem may be that you're more interested in the immediate gratification that dragging lots of pots rather than the far less glamourous and far more lucrative grinding out profits by winning the most money. Let's go a different road with this, if you'll indulge me. Sometimes in logic, it is easier to prove a statement by disproving the opposite. You say, "You cannot beat poker, especially online, because of XYZ...." The opposite of this is that "You can beat poker, especially online, because of XYZ...." I, and many others, fall into this group; it stands in direct contradiction of what you purport. Please demonstrate how our results are not possible. 
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#22
12-07-2004, 12:57 PM
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Re: Making money at poker
Don't forget running the cardrooms!
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#23
12-07-2004, 01:13 PM
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Re: Making money at poker
OK, I see the reasoning, and I agree with it. I agree with the theory in the books.
But you have an A 6 off-suit in the hole, opponent has Q 9 suited, and 3 Q 9 comes up on the flop. Opponent goes All-in ( a big bet which would also put you all-in ). Only cards that can help on the river are AA, A6, A3, 66, right? Questions: 1) Would you call? 2) What are the odds of you making one of those hands? I have top pair with a paired kicker. 2 9's and 2 Q's in the pack to make it totally unbeatable. What are the odds of hitting two Aces on the turn and river? He did ! Most of the local game guys have a rough idea of the odds and the games are great (and go on for ages!). I'm losing in the games where they stay in with rubbish and it consistently beats me. I fold 8 5 off-suit and watch 8 8 5 come up on the flop.... I stay in with it, and watch A K K come up.... I win one big hand with pocket 6's that flopped a 6, and then watch it evaporate to extortionate odds. This is why I bought Mr Sklansky's book. I seem to be losing more now that I'm reading the odds, counting my outs, playing for drawing hands when I have one, watching the pot odds, etc.....
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#24
12-07-2004, 01:18 PM
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Re: Making money at poker
I'm sorry that you suck. I'm sorry you got a bad beat. No one has ever gotten one. But he actually had several other ways of beating you. He could have caught A6, or even A3.
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#25
12-07-2004, 01:20 PM
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Re: Making money at poker
[ QUOTE ]
OK, I see the reasoning, and I agree with it. I agree with the theory in the books. But you have an A 6 off-suit in the hole, opponent has Q 9 suited, and 3 Q 9 comes up on the flop. Opponent goes All-in ( a big bet which would also put you all-in ). Only cards that can help on the river are AA, A6, A3, 66, right? Questions: 1) Would you call? 2) What are the odds of you making one of those hands? I have top pair with a paired kicker. 2 9's and 2 Q's in the pack to make it totally unbeatable. What are the odds of hitting two Aces on the turn and river? He did ! Most of the local game guys have a rough idea of the odds and the games are great (and go on for ages!). I'm losing in the games where they stay in with rubbish and it consistently beats me. I fold 8 5 off-suit and watch 8 8 5 come up on the flop.... I stay in with it, and watch A K K come up.... I win one big hand with pocket 6's that flopped a 6, and then watch it evaporate to extortionate odds. This is why I bought Mr Sklansky's book. I seem to be losing more now that I'm reading the odds, counting my outs, playing for drawing hands when I have one, watching the pot odds, etc..... [/ QUOTE ] You do realize SSHE is for LIMIT, and you are playing NO-LIMIT, playing the right game might improve your game for a start.
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#26
12-07-2004, 01:20 PM
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Re: Making money at poker
[ QUOTE ]
Yes. But if you do the math here, you'll see that this is a profitable play over the long run. I think your problem may be that you're more interested in the immediate gratification that dragging lots of pots rather than the far less glamourous and far more lucrative grinding out profits by winning the most money. [/ QUOTE ] Nope, I'm quite happy to dump toilet hands, take the small win, and sit and wait for the big ones. But when the big ones 'appear', I still get stuffed. And I lose all the little ground-out ones in one go. It's like there's a ceiling limit before I tumble back down....
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#27
12-07-2004, 01:25 PM
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Re: Making money at poker
[ QUOTE ]
You do realize SSHE is for LIMIT, and you are playing NO-LIMIT, playing the right game might improve your game for a start. [/ QUOTE ] He could have been talking about TOP, which he stated that he studied.
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#28
12-07-2004, 01:27 PM
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Re: Making money at poker
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry that you suck. I'm sorry you got a bad beat. No one has ever gotten one. But he actually had several other ways of beating you. He could have caught A6, or even A3. [/ QUOTE ] Jesus, what's the point of trying to explain something.... Yes. I KNOW I got a bad beat. And I know other people get them. I've watched Phil Hellmuth throw himself down on the floor and refuse to shake an opponents hand because his QQ got beat by an A on the river. But I got a bad beat AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN. And I'm trying to show an example of the sort of odds that are beating me nearly every other hand because so many people stay in against me, regardless of what I have. I'm asking - how do you beat so many people staying in and catching long odds?
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#29
12-07-2004, 01:28 PM
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Re: Making money at poker
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You do realize SSHE is for LIMIT, and you are playing NO-LIMIT, playing the right game might improve your game for a start. [/ QUOTE ] He could have been talking about TOP, which he stated that he studied. [/ QUOTE ] Yep. And Super System. Thank you!
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#30
12-07-2004, 01:28 PM
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Re: Making money at poker
You are going to lose pots, and you better start getting used to it.
It's not a "theory" that it is profitable to go in with the best of it. It's pretty much mathematical fact. I strongly suggest you go back and read TOP and SSHE until you start to get some of these fundamentals. Those 2 books explain it better than almost any reply you will receive here. No offense to the 2+2 posters intended. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
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