When it's cheap to bluff

Sephus · #1 12-05-2004, 12:15 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 max, 5 handed)

Hero ($58.05)
BB ($87.85)
UTG ($176.05)
MP ($44.25)
Button ($86.95)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, MP calls $1, Button folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($3) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP checks.

OK, so nobody hit this flop.

Turn: ($3) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP bets $3

OK so MP thinks he can pick it up, i'll invest $8 cause he'll probably lay it down.

Hero raises to $8, BB folds, MP calls $5.

OK well it didn't work, but i still don't see what he can have that he would check through on the flop and call my little checkraise. maybe he has the As.

River: ($19) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $9.

well this is a pretty good card to throw out a small "call me" bet, if he has the ace of spades i'm golden. i still don't think he hit the board.

Final Pot: $28

BobboFitos · #2 12-05-2004, 04:02 AM

Sephus,

I understand your line of thinking, and I hoped it worked out. But... Why invest 8$ on a turn check-raise with MAYBE 6 outs if called? It seems to me you're expending too much $ into nothing pots. This is a nothing pot; move on.

Or, if you got the vibe no one hit anything, bet the turn. You're first to act, maybe they'll think you wanted to C/R the flop, and will lay down hands then. What are you representing by check raising the turn? Granted, players probably arent going into 2nd or 3rd level thinking on this limit, but your line looks strange.

Sephus · #3 12-05-2004, 02:06 PM

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Sephus,

I understand your line of thinking, and I hoped it worked out. But... Why invest 8$ on a turn check-raise with MAYBE 6 outs if called? It seems to me you're expending too much $ into nothing pots. This is a nothing pot; move on.

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well i don't really care if there's only $6 in there, i want the $6. i really thought there was a 66-70% chance they would both fold on the turn.

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Or, if you got the vibe no one hit anything, bet the turn. You're first to act, maybe they'll think you wanted to C/R the flop, and will lay down hands then.

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i think by checkraising i show a little more strength, plus i get to see if the BB maybe caught a piece after all and bets to protect it. i think the turn bet from LP is pretty automatic seeing as nobody has gone after the pot, so i invest a little more than twice as much to show a little more strength to win a pot that turned out to be twice as big while having a little more information.

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What are you representing by check raising the turn? Granted, players probably arent going into 2nd or 3rd level thinking on this limit, but your line looks strange.

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i was represnting a flush or 2 pair from the SB. i thought i was repping the same on the river as cheaply as possible.

BobboFitos · #4 12-05-2004, 02:43 PM

Sephus...

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well i don't really care if there's only $6 in there, i want the $6. i really thought there was a 66-70% chance they would both fold on the turn.

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Only you can judge that, I can't. I wasn't there. So fine, well played. What kinda analysis do you want from me then? The fact is often it's not beneficial to fight over every small pot. If you felt no one is there, bet the turn outright. You'll know if they caught something if they raise you or flat call.

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i think by checkraising i show a little more strength,

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But if no one has anything, why do you need to show strength? He who bets takes it down.

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i think the turn bet from LP is pretty automatic seeing as nobody has gone after the pot

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just because a person bets last to act doesn't mean they're stealing.

If you felt you had great steal potential then keep firing away on the small pots. If it works keep it up.
My point of view is that in my experience whenever I try to pick up all these small pots people call down with less then spectacular holdings when pots are small to keep me honest (they love snapping off bluffs) and so often the times I win the small ones are offset by the ones where I'm called down. But as stated, if it works for you, dont mind me.

Sephus · #5 12-05-2004, 03:12 PM

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Only you can judge that, I can't. I wasn't there. So fine, well played. What kinda analysis do you want from me then?

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well you have almost as much information as i do. i didnt have strong reads/stats on any of the players. it's possible that i was way off with that probability and you could be a judge of that simply by the action.

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The fact is often it's not beneficial to fight over every small pot. If you felt no one is there, bet the turn outright. You'll know if they caught something if they raise you or flat call.

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i don't fight over every small pot, i thought it was +EV to fight over this one is all.

on party with a 3-flush on the board people will just call a turn bet with a wide range of hands including lower spades. i figured they'd be less likely to call a checkraise with a lot of these hands.

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i think by checkraising i show a little more strength,

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But if no one has anything, why do you need to show strength? He who bets takes it down.

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because people will call a bet with just about any spade but are less likely to bet and then call a checkraise with one. am i crazy?

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i think the turn bet from LP is pretty automatic seeing as nobody has gone after the pot

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just because a person bets last to act doesn't mean they're stealing.

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but when the board is 8742 3 spades and he didnt bet the flop, it seems reasonable to me to say that if he has a made hand it's likely to be a flush or a maybe a pair of 4s or something (A8 K8 or A7 K7 often bets this flop), and a lot of the time he's stealing. since he didnt reraise my checkraise he probably doesn't have a flush. he probably has something like A4 or the naked ace of spades, right? unless it's a turned set or something.