semi-LAG play exacerbated by poor post-flop decisions? help!

VBM · #1 12-03-2004, 02:13 PM

i'm really trying to tighten up, as recent stat-checkers here have been parading 14-17% VP$IP, 55%+ W$SD and i > the 1st and < the 2nd.

I feel like I did OK in these hands, but I want y'all's honest opinions...

--oj.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button raises, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (15 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (13.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 16.50 BB
Main Pot: 16.50 BB, between Button, SB and Hero.

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Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, Hero calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Turn: (13.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, CO calls, SB calls.

River: (17.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero folds, CO raises, SB folds, BB 3-bets, CO calls.

Final Pot: 23.50 BB
Main Pot: 23.50 BB, between CO and BB.

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Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls, CO 3-bets, Button calls, UTG folds, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (12.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, Button calls, Hero folds, MP3 folds.

River: (14.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO bets, Button raises, CO 3-bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 20.25 BB
Main Pot: 20.25 BB, between CO and Button.

***********************************

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (7.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 folds, MP2 raises, CO calls, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Hero raises, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 3-bets, CO caps, Hero folds, MP2 calls.

River: (18.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, CO bets, MP2 raises, CO 3-bets, MP2 caps, CO calls.

Final Pot: 26.75 BB
Main Pot: 26.75 BB, between MP2 and CO.

btspider · #2 12-03-2004, 02:23 PM

in multi-hand posts always stop the action at the key decision point or when you fold.

on a quick glance:
hand 1: fine

hand 2: easy fold PF

hand 3: turn fold is fine. i don't think i could lay down to the first flop bet unless the pot were smaller. edit: ah, you have the J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], the play seems fine.

hand 4: tough hand.. i might fold the flop, but i know the action coming up... hmm.. the Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is tempting enough to make me want to see the turn.

sexypanda · #3 12-03-2004, 02:37 PM

Is hand 2 really that easy of a fold pf? I think its questionable. Honestly you played every hand exactly as I would have (not sure it thats good) except the last hand. I don't really like the turn raise.

topspin · #4 12-03-2004, 02:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is hand 2 really that easy of a fold pf?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. What EP raise doesn't have you dominated?

meep_42 · #5 12-03-2004, 02:46 PM

Hand 1: Fine
Hand 2: Fold PF. Cold calling with KQo is bad. I think you have to call the first bet on the river, but can fold when CO wakes up. BB have QJ?
Hand 3: Fine.
Hand 4: I think you played this backwards. On the flop, I think you need to raise or fold, depending on your read of the two ahead of you. With position and no reads at this level, I probably fold. I think it's clear that you're not going to win this with TP. Why raise this turn with it pairing the board and bringing the flush? This is the worst card that could have come in this field and you're raising? I think I would fold here even if I had survived the flop. (The Qc is not likely to be good if a 4th club comes, you could be drawing dead to a FH, your Q kicker may be no good. I think you're drawing the 1, maybe 2 queens here.) UTG+1 had AJ or KJ, MP2 has 99, CO has the flush (Ax).

-d

VBM · #6 12-03-2004, 03:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 4: I think you played this backwards. On the flop, I think you need to raise or fold, depending on your read of the two ahead of you.

[/ QUOTE ]
This was tough for me. When the flop came out, I planned to raise this myself, then MP2 raised, and CO called. I didn't want to fold, as I felt like I had the equity to stay in the hand. I had top pair on a draw-heavy board, and a piece of straight & flush draws...What do you guys typically do here?

[ QUOTE ]
Why raise this turn with it pairing the board and bringing the flush?

[/ QUOTE ]
There had been 3 checks & 1 bet when the action came back to me, and I thought I might be able to muscle out UTG & UTG+1 & MP2 and isolate the CO. Even if CO had me beat with say, trips, I still have some outs. This may be flawed thinking however; not giving enough credit to UTG - MP2 for check-raising their big made hands? I normally assume players in these limits would've led the turn action with big hands instead of check-raising.

VBM · #7 12-03-2004, 04:11 PM

Hand 1:
SB has 8c Ah (one pair, eights).
Hero has Js Jh (one pair, jacks).
Button has Kc Kd (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Button wins 16.50 BB.
Don't feel so bad about this one; could've been a lot worse in the hands of a more aggressive Button...

Hand 2:
BB has Ks Jh (straight, jack high).
CO has 5d Jd (straight, jack high).
Outcome: CO wins 11.75 BB. BB wins 11.75 BB. 
It's been said already by some of you, but folding is better than raising is better than calling.

CO called 2 w/ J5s, but would he have called 3?
Probably not. same with BB. May not have called 2 PF with KJo. If he did, I doubt I'd be able to move him off of KJ after the flop either.

Folding PF would've saved me all this trouble regardless

Hand 3:
CO has As Ac (two pair, aces and queens).
Button has 7h Qh (three of a kind, queens).
Outcome: Button wins 20.25 BB.
Another unfortunate flop for JJ, I guess. would've been dominated PF or after the flop.

Hand 4:
MP2 has Ac 5c (flush, ace high).
CO has Tc 7c (flush, jack high).
Outcome: MP2 wins 26.75 BB.
Should've called the turn? folded? The only reason I even got involved in this pot was b/c it was unraised and I was on the button. My turn-raise now seems really bad, but at the time, I summarily dismissed MP2 as defensively checking and tried to single up on CO, and assess his strength. Is this really bad thinking? Should I have just been more passive here? I'm really confused these days...

stir · #8 12-03-2004, 04:32 PM

Yes it is an extremely easy lay down. Unsuited face cards will not do well against raises in front of you (long term).

If you regularly call here as you indicated, then it is a leak in your game.

davebytheway · #9 12-03-2004, 06:46 PM

And spare a thought (okay, a nasty thought) for the CO in Hand 3 who thought he'd get cute with his AA preflop and got sucked out by the button...