Flopped Nut Straight -- Good Slowplay?

Harv72b · #1 12-02-2004, 10:06 PM

...or did I just cheat myself out of a couple of bets along the way?

Reads: I had no previous hands with either opponent before this session, but both seemed like the typical loose/passive fish types.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+2 bets, MP3 calls, Button folds, Hero calls, BB folds.

Turn: (4 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, MP3 calls, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls.

River: (10 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 19 BB
Main Pot: 19 BB, between Hero, UTG+2 and MP3. > Pot won by Hero (19 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero has Qc Ah (straight, ace high).
UTG+2 has Tc Qd (straight, king high).
MP3 has Qh Th (straight, king high).
Outcome: Hero wins 19 BB. 

Note: Before anyone says it, I only completed PF because the table had been playing pretty tight against me before this (read: I hadn't been caught bluffing yet). I thought that if I raised & bet at any time after the flop, I'd see a cascade of folds again...going from the board & hole cards on this one, a PF raise would have been better in hindsight.

Tosh · #2 12-02-2004, 10:11 PM

Stop talking crap and raise preflop.

If I felt the table was loose passive I would raise the flop as the turn could well be checked around.

RichHarden · #3 12-03-2004, 12:22 AM

No excuses, you must raise this preflop for a plethora of reasons.

Brash620 · #4 12-03-2004, 01:21 AM

Slowplay: Good
Preflop play: Below Average

ecooke · #5 12-03-2004, 01:27 AM

I don't hate the PF complete at all as long as it’s not your standard line.
Good job waiting for the turn to raise - although I personally don't consider it a slowplay.

Brash620 · #6 12-03-2004, 01:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Good job waiting for the turn to raise - although I personally don't consider it a slowplay.

[/ QUOTE ]

Might I ask how you don't consider this a slowplay???

ecooke · #7 12-03-2004, 01:38 AM

I don't consider it a slowplay because waiting for the Turn is a better way to get more money in the pot from a Turn c/r that is not likely to be possible otherwise.
On second thought, it may be a slowplay. But I really can't say - I tend to think about hands only in terms of maximizing my ability to win pots.

Brash620 · #8 12-03-2004, 01:42 AM

I still must disagree. The point of a slowplay is to get extra bets into the pot by giving your opponet a free card so they can catch up enough to bet or hopefully raise with what they think is the best hand at the time.

Kooch · #9 12-03-2004, 02:03 AM

Can someone explain why this is a 'must' raise from the SB? I mean, regardless of type of table, it's only AQo, you have terrible position and 4 limpers. Yeah, when you flop the nuts, you can look back and say, 'I wish I woulda raised', but could someone give a solid reason why a raise is necessary here instead of limping? Doesn't a hidden AQ maximize this hand moreso than raising and getting 4 extra small bets in there PF, and leading out? You can't raise from the SB, check this flop, and expect anyone else to bet, can you? Thanks in advance.

ecooke · #10 12-03-2004, 02:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The point of a slowplay is to get extra bets into the pot by giving your opponent a free card so they can catch up enough to bet

[/ QUOTE ]
His opponent bet the Flop! It was UTG+2, look at the post again if you don’t believe me.

Regardless, the case for slowplaying this hand is that the pot is small and you don't want to push your opponents out with an extremely strong hand. That said, calling the Flop serves to commit your opponents to the pot while fattening it, gives another card and a little risk to your holdings, and provides a lovely opportunity to c/r with the nuts for a double bet.